Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

Yes that plonker. I know he's not Muslim thankfully.

Thank you for this really interesting thread.

Am not sure what I want to add at this stage specifically, just to say that my husband is Muslim although I am not, and I have lived with him in Turkey for many years, so i know lots from the perspective of living in a so called 'secular state'! Turkey is changing insidiously away from secularism which worries a great many people here.

I think I just wanted to say that my little family is an example of a Muslim and non Muslim living together in perfect harmony where our children are being brought up to be citizens of the world rather than follow any specific faith. I will be very interested to see how their feelings about faith develop, at school they are given a very one sided religious education, learning exclusively about Islam. In my husbands childhood religious education was kept strictly out of the schools but this has now changed. I could talk about the blurring of religion and politics forever!

Sparkling sea. Lovely to hear about your little mixed up family, and great that they get tosee both sides of the coin too. Must be interesting for you as a non Muslim to live in a Muslim country. :)

It is very interesting Waynetta living here as somewhat a 'fly on the wall'. For the most part I am accepted and my differences respected entirely. I think this is perhaps because I am 'properly foreign and different' and therefore somehow not a threat. I do witness however, the differences and prejudices between the different types of Muslims which quite frankly bemuse me. The headscarved and the non head scarved and particularly how badly the Alevi's are treated and astonishing ignorance about them. A teacher friend of mine has recently been ousted out of her job for basically being open about being Alevi, this I realise has as much to do with politics as religion but saddens me greatly.

Please forgive my ignorance lol, who is alevi? Sorry to hear about your friend being dismissed that's awful. And yes headscarf vs no headscarf, just read my other threads! It must be nothing new to you :(

Sparklingsea, welcome, what an interesting position you have!
Waynetta, I understand your concerns regarding hijab, however I wear hijab and while I would never condemn anyone for not doing, I'm uncomfortable with it being painted in a negative light.
Most people in this country are vitamin D deficient, hijab or no hijab. The weather for most of the year is not suitable for uncovering much skin even if you're willing too! I think a lot of the problems are more to do with lifestyle. My husbands family live in a Muslim country and the women all wear hijab. However they spend the majority of the day outside (not in a flat, or in shopping malls etc) are tanned, strong (and I mean really strong!) and healthy. Their house is built around a courtyard, as is traditional in Islamic countries, and as a result they are able to sit in the sun without being covered up. Also, it gives a general feeling of being outdoors even in the house, as all the rooms are off the courtyard so as soon as you make up in the morning you open the bedroom door and you are effectively outside.
It's hard to have such an outdoors lifestyle here, but we really try to as a family. We go camping, cycling and walking as often as we can, and when we're in the wilderness I can roll my sleeves up! I always go out into our little garden everyday, even when it's cold, unless it's pouring with rain.
Many famiilies who were originally immigrants to this country came from lifestyles like my husband families. Yet here they are crammed into a centrally heated terraced house and don't get much exercise.

I also don't think being covered up has to mean being overheated. Wearing natural fabrics in light colours can keep you cooler than being without clothes.
I remember being in Pakistan and being told my a Christian lady that all old Muslim ladies had bad knees because they pray 5 times a day. I thought it was more likely due to all the time they spent squatting while cooking/cleaning etc! While I'm sure the issues you mention are very valid, I don't think the hijab is the only culprit.

Alevi = Shia Muslims of Turkey

Alevism is part of the shia tradition, it is estimated there are around 15 million Alevis in Turkey, the majority of Turkish Muslims are sunni and many people don't consider alevis to be proper Muslims at all. They suffer a lot of predjudice.

I think that's the discomfort Crescent with hearing the hijab critisised. While it is everyones right to their opinion the mothers of the believers are female companions of the Prophet (pbuh) wore it, so to critisise it feels like critisising them.
I also think it's a 2 way street. I've met non-hijabi wearing Muslims who make judgements on me and treat me in a certain way because I wear hijab, and yet I don't judge them. They seem to assume they have a right not to be judged, while themselves judging others.
These comments aren't directed at you waynetta, you've expressed your views here and elsewhere very fairly, these are just general comments.

sparklingsea - I've been writing about Turkey's worrying move away from secularism on this thread. Every time I go back, I see that friends and relatives are increasingly scared of the direction the country is being led to. It is very

Reporting of this situation in international media is shockingly misleading. I have stopped reading The Times because they keep applauding Erdogan and his cronies every time they jail another general, totally missing the big picture of the many hundreds of people in jail without a charge because they are a threat to his majesty government. If The Times get it so wrong in Turkey, who can say if their analyses of other international events are not similarly erroneous?

HardlyEver - Thank you for your account. It is fascinating (for me, at least).

"having done the 'liberal' experiment I could certainly accept that their needed to be rules"

It is very interesting that this disillusionment with your liberal life has lead you towards a rigidly regimented religion that controls every aspect of your life, including what you wear, how you act, etc. I remember reading about this sort of thing, I think in Eric Fromm's Escape From Freedom. (I don't mean to belittle your struggle for meaning - just wanted to tell you the name of a brilliant book on this subject if ever you are interested)

Have you found happiness in these rules? Do you think that they make people happier in general? I'm curious.

I completely agree Cote- the international media is very misleading. My husband looses sleep over this whole issue, we are the lucky ones we have another country we can go to should things go too far. Another friend of our who is a Doctor lost her job in the state sector as she was open about not being a supporter of Erdogan. My elderly FIL is constantly worried about my husband being openly critical about the current goverment, he really fears reprisals. Ataturk's picture has been removed from many of the school curriculum books and replaced with Erdogan himself!

Hardly ever hoovered, I completely agree with your points and I just need to clarify that with those sorts of houses with courtyards are great with women that cover and also that it is true immigration wise the environments such as tiny houses and not much opportunity for sun can contribute highly to vitamin d deficiency. I want to also make clear I FULLY support and will defend any sister who chooses to wear headscarf, niqab or anything they like for whatever reason at all. I know I've come across very strongly on this thread but let it be known I agree with the added benefits of extra modesty and my gripe is directed at these clerics who issue fatwas without any idea of personal circumstance and no idea in hell what it's like to cover in 50 degree heat. No headscarf wearer should belittle a non wearer and vice versa. You guys all seem so relaxed about it all mashaallah. I feel like I have the freedom to express how I really feel about things, whereas in RL I just don't have it. Thankyou for that

"Ataturk's picture has been removed from many of the school curriculum books and replaced with Erdogan himself!"

Schools were totally secular when I (like your husband) went to school in Turkey. We had 1 hour per week of religion class, which was more like "history of religions" plus a few prayers to learn in a year sort of thing. Now they have changed the entire education system, with multiple religion classes on Arabic, life of Mohammad, actual Quran classes etc. From what I hear, students who don't "choose" these get blacklisted

My father, who has lived through several coups d'etat, was telling me that this is the first time that he is actually worried for his safety. Previously, you were fine as long as you didn't do anything wrong. Now, it is dangerous simply not to be one of the fundamentalists

Well you guys are keeping me away from my thesis today!
waynetta so glad you feel that way alhamdulillah.
Cote I'm mulling over this description of Islam that you gave a rigidly regimented religion that controls every aspect of your life, including what you wear, how you act and trying to work out if I think that's true.
There certainly are guidelines for every aspect of life, even down to how you go to the toilet, as I'm sure you know. But I don't feel 'controlled' by Islam, more like there is a circle I have agreed to live within and I have lots of freedom within that circle.

The little rules (like the toilet rules, or how to eat, or what to do an say before sleeping) that govern everyday life, felt like a burden to me at first, but now I realise that they nurture a quality similar to the 'mindfulness' that Buddhists speaks of.
I can't speak for anyone else but these things make me feel happier because I feel they give me mindfulness and self control. I am also learning to gain control over my tongue (in terms of lying, backbiting etc) and ultimately my heart, and hope that in time I will no longer even think bad things about people, let alone want to say them.
As a whole, I am undoubtedly happier post Islam, and even my non-Muslim family would testify to that.

That book sounds interesting, I'll try and find it.
Hope I've answered your questions.
Can I ask you a question? I've noticed that you post a lot of religion threads, and I'm wondering what maintains your interest in it, despite having decided against religion for yourself?

A lot on religion threads, not of...

Don't get me started on the school system Cote! Next year Erdogan plans to scrap school uniforms so gone will be the lovely blue 'onluks'! Apart from believing that school uniform is a good thing where ever you are I am worried by the view that uniforms are being scrapped so girls will then be able to wear headscarves at school.

For anyone who doesn't know, girls and women are not allowed to wear headscarves in school in Turkey, or any other public building for that matter, this may well change!

I don't mean it as a derogatory term but Islam clearly is a rigidly regimented religion that controls every aspect of your life. Who you see, who sees you (apart from your face & hands), how you act, what you wear, exactly how you pray, exactly how to wash hands & feet etc. I'm not saying that this is a terrible thing for everyone, although I wouldn't ever want to live like this myself. (And I do vividly remember my mum trying to teach me how to wash when I had my first period which was a bit of a )

I think it is fascinating that disillusionment with modern life, with its ample freedoms and (imperfect) equality between men & women, sometimes pushes people, especially girls, towards a system that allows limited freedom in a tightly regimented structure. This is not just you - I had previously read such statements from other British converts, back when I read UK papers.

This is actually an interesting question that philosophers have been trying to answer for some time: Do freedoms make us happier? Or are we happier when we know our "place" and are told exactly what to do?

I'm on the freedom camp. Definitely. But I know that you are definitely not alone in the other one.

Hmm, I remember me and a (convert) friend talking about this sort of thing with my mum, who said she was surprised that someone like me, who had been in her words a 'rebel' should want to follow all these rules.
My friend said it was the difference between following the rules of people, or the rules of God.
It is fascinating, I know a group of teenagers who've converted, they are like the antithesis (not sure if I've spelt that right) of modern teenagers, and seem to compete with eachother as to how Islamically strict they can be, as opposed to how much make up they can wear of boys they can snog!