Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

nailak Yeah I know about the apartheid and when I go back to SA with my husband to visit his family, was always struck by how different in levels of comfort were between the richer Afrikaners like his family, and the "coloureds" and blacks. Even though its been more than a decade since the country has been given back to their own people, the difference is still very stark. There are roads where it was advisable not to have your car run out of petrol or break down in because if you did, you could be in danger... like near the townships for instance. Even some of my husband's childhood Afrikaner friends who were considered "poor" Afrikaners in comparison to the richer ones are living much better off than the blacks. My husband, unlike his family, felt it was right that the country was given back to the blacks to govern. But he also feels sad in a way that now the place he calls home and feels belonging to is no longer "his" country so to speak. Oh and he had Muslim friends when he was heavily in the party scene in the late 90s early 2000s... they were not practising Muslims or at least not strict, but he didn't care what his parents thought at that point. It was like, after years of being preached at and dragged to church, he decided to heck it and do the things his parents said not to do, lol And he went on long journeys backpacking everywhere... But he's mellowed down a lot since we had kids and is an agnostic.

He met his non practising or semi practising Muslim friends in SA through his half Indian girlfriend I have to add... he even lived with her in the "coloureds" area for a while. they went to parties a lot. clubbing. So yeah I guess its probably like the areas where your parents lived, do ypu mean?

yeah thats what i meant, but indians had different areas from coloureds.

i dont know for me it has never been possible to walk down the street and stuff while i am there. But I went in dec it is changing, there are black people who are very well off, but my family seem kind of lost like they dont know their place anymore or something, it is hard to explain or put a finger on,

When I'm there I can never go out freely. No public transport (well there is, but dangerous and high crime) and I can't drive (well I gave up after 3 fails... its too expensive... maybe next time). I am stuck relying on people chaperoning me everywhere the whole time. Yet this is a life that most Afrikaners have gotten used to. Its so weird to me. You need a car to go anywhere, or you need a friend or a friend of friend etc who has a car to go anywhere. I kinda hate it there sometimes. Feel like I'm back living with my parents again as a young child. But we don't return often. Once in a blue moon. His family comes to UK to visit though.

^ i feel the same, could never live in a place i cant walk down the road, some areas are ok though.

Walikumasalaam crescent :).

I would say as a convert one of the hardest things for me has been the culture mixed up with islam. Bizarre things I've heard from in laws in particular and when I was pregnant I remember being advised by a sister to get one of those amulets done by a 'sheikh' ie a person that practices witchcraft. I've often found much of it hypocritical too...for example the whole headscarf thing..in my family I'm seen as the one who has gone 'astray' because I don't wear it...but yet I pray 5 times a day and follow the other pillars of islam, I educate myself islamically etc etc. But culturally as I don't cover my hair (never mind that I cover the rest of my entire body right up to neck/wrists/feet) I'm not as good a Muslim. But it's cool for people in the family to not bother with these things, ignore salah when the time comes, not bother to educate themselves on the deen. That is my biggest gripe with the culture I'm facing at the moment!!!

waynetta did you read crescents posts upthread on wahabism, i think it is quite relevant to your situation.

Nailak mashaallah I did. You see what I was saying on my other threads about the local community being a strict one, actually a lot of our imams and people of knowledge here have studied in places such as Saudi, and from what I wonder were most likely Wahhabis. The views are really similar and it's why there's been lots of controversy in the masjids..some imams have been dismissed and even banned outright because of complaints and the like

what sort of complaints? the salafi marriage bandits ones?

RE your hijab issues Waynetta I really sympathise. I think that in the UK Muslim communities there is a huge emphasis on this over the above other more pressing issues. I've met women who want to convert to Islam but are hesitating because they don't feel they can wear the hijab. I really don't think that should be a consideration at that point.
I know many Muslim women who don't wear hijab for a variety of reasons, and while I personally accept it as necessary in Islam, I don't see a lack of hijab as necessarily reflective of a lack of anything else. Even modesty itself is based on many more factors than the hijab, including other clothing, the way you conduct yourself etc.
We've all seen the teenage girls with hijab, skin tight clothes, tons of makeup sat in macdonalds with a load of lads! Not that I would want to judge her either of course, we are all where we are...

Yeah I think so, lots of salafis round here. It's quite usual for the local imam to have more than one wife, though obviously people question how he can afford them. One imam stated it was ok to marry a few women and have them claim benefits as its better than a load of unmarried women going around. In another khutba it was said that men SHOULD definitely marry four women because that's what they are supposed to do. There's more that I can't even remember. I stopped attending that masjid though and changed to another one.

Hardlyeverhoovers. Yes it's so true, the hijab issue seems to come before everything else, and so much of the blame for these 'lusts' is laid very comfortably on a woman. The way I see it is...and forgive me for being crude or graphic....if a guy sees my hair or my foot and immediately wants to rape me or wank himself off...is that really some issues deep inside him or is it me? I think that's an absolute no brainer. I feel sorry for the men in this world who are made out to many impressionable Muslim women to be uncontrollable sex monsters. Allah explicitly orders the men alone in surah al azhab before the second verse of covering, to LOWER their gaze and GUARD their modesty. I agree with others when the point is made : if women were covered head to toe, why would men even have to lower their gaze if there's nothing to even see?' Even my husband who believes that hijab should be worn, agrees with this point.

because everyone is not muslim? in the time of the sahabah their were bare chested slave girls walking around? eyes can be attractive?

I agree exactly with hardly.

there is an issue that if a man is married to two wives it is impossible for both of them to make a joint claim with the man, so one of them has to claim tax credits etc as a single parent. unless we say only rich men can have the right to two wives? and then you can say why have two wives if you cant support them. but then what about people who have one wife and claim tax credits and hb, would we also say they shouldnt get married if they cannot afford it?

but yeah in general there is an opinion that since this is dar al harb there is no issue with fraud. personally i dont believe this is dar al harb, and the belief it is has far reaching consequences.

here are a few interesting links marriagebandits.wordpress.com/

protectmuslimsisters.com/salafi-horror-stories/

protectmuslimsisters.com/uk-sisters-need-our-support/

Yes, there does seem to be a perception that a woman who doesn't cover herself only has herself to blame if a man isn't able to lower his gaze, but as you say it's just as much the responsibility of a man. I think if Muslim men treated ALL women with as much respect as they should, people would have a very different perception of Islam.

i agree.

hardlyeverhoovers salaams sister! I know exactly what you mean from the quote about shivering of the skin! For me, it was when I realised that it is pure arrogance to think we know all the secrets of the universe, and like you I read the Quran from cover to cover. As a biologist, I was astonished at the accuracy of some the verses relating to evolution and science. At first I thought I could only convert once I understood Islam completely and had answered all my questions. By then, I was praying, fasting and following the main tenets of the faith (except the no sex before marriage lol!)

My soon to be DH was worried about me converting because he was afraid that he would have to become strict, and concerned that he didn't have the knowledge to answer my questions. I mean, get this, he can recite the Quran by heart, but he had NO IDEA what he was reading!

He had never learned the meaning of the Quran beyond a few choice quotes, and had been reciting like a parrot for 15 years.
Now I now that most Muslims in the UK have been brought up like this, in more or less total ignorance of the contents of their holy book, so it's no wonder that cultural inheritance reigns supreme. To this day, I find it absurd, and reminiscent of the early church conducting all services in Latin so that only the learned few could understand.

Why is it like this in the UK? Is it the same all over the non-Arab world?
It means so-called Sheikhs have dominance because hardly anyone is in a position to question their understanding. Take the hijab issue. Hijab is a pre-Islamic custom worn by free women, partly to show they were not slaves. It is not a uniquely Islamic from of dress, it is,if you like, a cultural hangover from pre-Islamic days. Why are so many Muslims stuck on this as a fundamental expression of faith?

(Women and Gender in Islam. By Leila Ahmed. Great study on the misogynistic interpretation given to many aspects of Islam by male scholars)

Salaams to all the sisters on here, Muslim or not!
Great thread, we need some more discussion areas like this

I think leading scholars have a lot to answer for in terms of a woman's responsibility for a mans sexual urges. How many girls each year are flogged in Islamic countries alongside their rapists? What about the total imbecile 'guru' in India who stated that the victim of the Delhi gang rape was just as guilty as those who killed her? It's all about laying it on women and giving men in general every excuse under the sun. My suspicions are some of these 'knowledgeable' people have their own deep rooted sexual problems and perhaps a severe lack of self control. They take the easy way out and issue fatwas stating women should cover from head to toe....oh and in black, because anything else is temptation. May I also make a very sensitive point while I'm here: in Saudi and in the north of the uk as well as other areas, women and children are suffering from heat exhaustion, severe vitamin d deficiency and rickets. As well as painful pregnancies because of osteoporosis, all of it caused by these wonderful fatwas ordering women to cover themselves up and to be deprived of sunlight. My mum is a nutritional therapist and has studied this extensively, and when I wore headscarf I was put on 3000 iu of vitamin d per day. A friend of mine had such severely low levels that her son is still being monitored for rickets, her bones are very weak and her little boys teeth took a very long time come through. These 'covering' issues have massively damaging and life changing implications for the female Muslim population as well as future generations of children.

Salaam Hani, really enjoyed reading that post of yours! Yes I am also amazed by the science in the Quran, particularly the accuracy iof description about the development of a foetus in the womb. I enjoy surah mulk because of the order to question the orbit of the planets and how the night does not outstrip the day etc. amazing stuff mashaallah. Have you ever worn hijab and do you ever debate with those who believe it is wajib?

It is such a shame for the people who know the Quran by heart but don't understand it, that must make it a burden for them, rather than the blessing it is meant to be. However we do know that there IS blessing in reciting without understanding, as the Quran is like medicine in this way. I am trying to memorise juz amma at the moment, and while I always try and read the translation of what I'm memorising, my understanding of Arabic isn't sufficient that I always know what I'm saying as I recite it. But I still feel such peace and tranqulity from it.

Also found these books fantastic, they are meant for children but also great for adults with limited Arabic:
www.noorart.com/school_section/Mini-Tafseer-Books

this man?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258422/Fury-Indian-guru-Asaram-Bapu-blames-Delhi-rape-victim-vicious-gang-attack-killed-her.html

he isn't muslim, let alone a scholar