Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

"wondering what maintains your interest in it, despite having decided against religion for yourself"

It is a fascinating subject. I obviously don't believe and never have, but I've seen many otherwise rational and reasonable people totally believe and exhibit self-restricting and strange behaviour to please a deity for whose existence there is not a shred of evidence. It is puzzling, to say the least

Through living in a Muslim country for almost 30 years, having a minimum of religious education, reading the holy books, and having some devout family members, I have quite a bit of knowledge which I like to beat people with share with others. Neither ignorant xenophobic anti-Muslims or misinformed fundamentalist Muslims are not thankful for my contributions, but I think nailak and crescent are beginning to love me, so here we are

"I meant to add dear cote to the end of my last comment"

You see? She loves me

I lived the life of a rebel in my early teens as is the norm in society here. I took drugs, partied, had about 5 boys at once on the go, etc etc. I personally found it was empty and soulless, and I used to have minor panic attacks late at night where I used to question why I was here. I know not every non religious person lives a wild destructive life lol but for me it's like what crescent said, I feel like I know my purpose now. I just feel satisfied and content when I wake up in the morning.

sparkling what is wrong with girls being allowed to wear scarf at work and school? in UK they are. In South Africa they are. and some do and some don't. personally if my daughter as a teen wanted to wear hijab and the school did not allow it, I would take her out of school. If all schools did not allow it I would have to seriously consider moving country.

One thing I can't understand, is if you believe something is the truth, then why would you not teach your kids that truth?

yes I have grown fond of cote, sometimes we have been arguing on the same side! lol

Waynetta I was like you, clubbing every night at 18, squat parties that lasted for days at 20...

"the difference between following the rules of people, or the rules of God"

I find it hard to believe that God cares if I wash my hands to the elbows exactly three times and snort water up my nose. Really.

"I know a group of teenagers who've converted, they are like the antithesis of modern teenagers, and seem to compete with eachother as to how Islamically strict they can be"

Yes, competitive religious fervour. It's a very strange affliction that I am told happens often among converts. I haven't seen that sort of thing at all among Muslim friends & family.

Lots of discussion about Sufism on here. Does anyone have any links to authors they would recommend? Feel myself instinctively drawn to the more spiritual rather than ritualistic side of Islam.

Any advice, JAK

Your last post could have been written by me Waynetta, apart from the 5 boys at once bit, I don't think I could have had that many interested

I understand your mystification with why God would want us to wash in a certain way etc Cote, though I would refer you back to my mindfulness comments. I also rather like you, despite your challenging posts!

Hanikam I've always really liked www.masud.co.uk for exploring sufism and general traditional Islam. The articles of the home page are a bit more political at the moment but if you explore you will find some great articles on sufism.

Would it be really rude....of me to ask how old everyone is ;). You may tell me to pee off politely. I am just curious.

Nailak- on the face of it I personally don't think there is anything wrong with girls wearing a headscarf in school. When I was at a multicultural school in the Uk we just accepted as it was that there were headscarves and turbans worn by some students. The Turkish republic was established by Ataturk in 1923 and he strove for secularism where religion and state would be entirely separate and this included education. This remains today although his ideas are being threatened. When I first moved here i felt these rules were not fair on women who could not express their religion in the way they wish by covering up. I have after years of being here and having children in the education system here changed my views. I know for a fact that if girls are allowed to wear a headscarf at school there will be a many teenage girls who will have absolutely no choice in the matter as they will be forced to do so by their families. I don't feel that is right and it allows fundamentalism to creep in to more and more areas of life in Turkey. It is very difficult to articulate the situation here in Turkey unless you have some experience of it, a feeling that religion is slowly taking over. As a non Muslim person myself it is quite hard to settle that feeling. The secular state is something many Turks are very proud of. Ataturk made huge progress for women and personally I want it to stay secular.

Not many people here would have a choice in moving country so their daughters could cover up at school! Having duel citizenship and a good financial situation means that I do have a choice. I really hope it does not come to that.

I am 38 Waynetta!

Thanks for the last post sparklingsea. In Singapore headscarves are not banned, but in schools they have always been. There were 4 girls who came to school with headscarves in 2002 and were suspended. I've always wondered about that, whether that unfairly prevents expression of religion. But since the girls were little (around 7 years old, I believe) I wonder if they had a personal choice in the headscarf or are doing it because their parents want them to and they want to please their parents.

I now think it's probably better to ban them in school. Singapore became secular because of race and religious riots in the 50s and 60s, and it has remained politically stable since.

I tried Googling up on the incident about the 4 girls banned from school in Singapore for wearing headscarves, and found this article where top Islamic figures in Singapore advised parents to put education above headscarves. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1804470.stm

I am all for freedom of choice where religion is concerned. I am concerned about fundamentalism creeping into a secular country (i.e. Singapore) where I'd spent nearly 20 years of my life living in, never having to worry about which religious denomination (or lack of) I belonged in. I think my Dad was open-minded (for him!) to have put under religion on my Singaporean Identity Card as "NIL" even though he'd rather I follow his religion (Thai Buddhism).

During the time I lived there, the Muslims I went to school with never put headscarves on. I'm still friends with many of them and they still don't choose to wear the headscarf even though they are out of school and hence are free to wear it if they like. There have been Islamic fundamentalist elements creeping into the country since the the turn of the millenium when I had just left Singapore to go travelling (but well, it turned out my absence from Singapore was long-term - I've been living in the UK for many years and have no immediate plans to return to Singapore yet). Al Qaeda did try to bomb some places in Singapore a few times but were botched. Like America, Singapore is controversial for detaining some of the terror suspects without trial. I don't know the answer to all this. Obviously for me, I just want my friends and family in Singapore to remain safe and not in danger from mad fundamentalists.

I think cote mentioned somewhere about homeschooling being banned in Turkey. In Singapore homeschooling isn't banned, however it is strictly regulated by authorities. Homeschooled kids must take the same Primary School Leaving Examinations as schooled kids where they will be tested in core academic subjects. If they fail, they must retake the test again. Homeschooled kids also have to be taught "Citizenship" lessons as what is being taught in schools. Oh and I've heard from Singaporean home educators that there are plans to require that home educating parents in Singapore be at least educated up to Degree level.

older than crescentmoon and younger than sparklingsea
you got married quite young then crescent, by western standards.

"I know for a fact that if girls are allowed to wear a headscarf at school there will be a many teenage girls who will have absolutely no choice in the matter as they will be forced to do so by their families." So you have decided it is ok if women or teenage girls are forced to expose parts of their body that they don't want to, but it is not ok if women are forced to cover? obviously it is better no one is forced to do anything, but you feel it is the lesser of two evils?

The right to practice religion is a right in the un declaration of human rights, preventing women in work and uni from doing so is against this fundamental human right. Do you not think it is a bit different a state denying a right to people, in comparison with individual issues amongst communities and societies which are not condoned by the state? I mean the state has set the precedent it is ok to dictate to women what they wear!

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I think sparkling has some good points in terms of girls being forced by their families, which inevitably does happen sometimes. I'm 23 :)

Nailak makes an equally valid point too though. Women who want to cover may be stopped, which is crazy as well. Politics and religion can be a nightmare.

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My girls wear head scarves. A few weeks ago I was getting ready for work and my youngest was watching closely, as I got ready to leave she finally said to me 'Mummy can I borrow that sometime...' She's just turned 8.

If it's a norm in the house and children see the women and older girls wearing headscarves, that's what they want to wear too.

I would not force it on my children, religion is personal. I'm not living my childrens lives, on the other hand I could do without having my wardrobe regularly raided by an 8 year and an almost 10 year old...by the time they hit their teens I will literally have nothing to wear.

I'm 41. And you ladies are babies I knew there was a reason why I keep patronising imparting knowledge and experience to you lot

What sparkling has said re Turkey. Entirely.

firefly, your post is interesting, I had no idea about the situation in Singapore. I am very interested about the ID situation, I wanted my Turkish ID left blank for religion when I took on citizenship upon marriage, that was not allowed but what upset me more was when registering my brand new baby they insisted he had to have a stated religion. My husband had a big dispute with the registrar about how could a brand new life be saddled with something on his ID card when he has a Muslim father, Christian mother and has no concept or choice in the matter. We had to choose something in the end, if Turkey ever become part of the EU they wont be able to label people by religion. It is a funny place is Turkey, so secular and forward thinking in many ways yet religion so important and contentious in other ways.

That brings me to your question nailak, As I said I personally have no problem with the headscarf but I struggle to believe that a 10/11 year old girl who may well be entering puberty really understands what wearing the headscarf really does or does not mean for them? I don't necessarily agree that a girl seeing other women in the household wearing headscarves means that they will want to too, I know of one 16 year old who has tried to kill herself as she absolutely does not want to wear it and going against her parents views and wishes is too much to cope with. I realise this is an extreme example but I just wonder how many teenagers anywhere really have a certain view on religion and faith? I know my views did not develop until I had experienced more as an adult and continue to develop. I don't for one minute think that I have go it all 'right'.
I don't know the answer really regarding headscarves in schools, I can see both sides of the debate but for my children growing up in Turkey, I want them to learn in a secular environment where religion is not even on the agenda and kept clear of fundamentalism.

sparklingsea People don't usually hear about Singapore unless they have business/family there or have to deal with Singaporeans regularly (say in Universities). Singapore mainly stays out of newspaper headlines unless the government does something really outlandish and/or silly. Like banning chewing gum! Yeah chewing gum was completely banned there up until recently. There are also other things about Singapore that I would like changed. Like the death sentence for drug traffickers. Or caning as a legal punishment for prostitution.

But back to what you said about the Turkish ID card, do you mean that it is not allowed to state one has no religon on the ID card? Is it because they think children shouldn't grow up without religion? You are right. Children don't really have a choice in this matter do they? I remember seeing the cards of some of my Singaporean friends in school, and they all had a religion stated on theirs, so I did think at the time that my Dad made an unconventional choice there by putting "NIL". When I grew up I realised he made a sensible choice :)