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Philosophy/religion

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Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

999 replies

Galvanise · 01/12/2012 00:21

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

OP posts:
firefly11 · 05/01/2013 01:57

Ah okay... sorry, lol. So the French secular way would not be compatible with Islam then.

firefly11 · 05/01/2013 01:58

I agree it seems harsh to ban the niqab. Some women choose to wear it. Let them wear it. I know it is seen by some as demeaning to women, but it is their choice.

crescentmoon · 05/01/2013 08:08

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crescentmoon · 05/01/2013 08:21

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CoteDAzur · 05/01/2013 09:31

crescent - I don't know if you have ever been to Turkey, but private companies always had women working with headscarves, especially in the more conservative central & eastern Anatolian cities. If your friends told you that is not the case, then you were fed stories that are just not true.

This was about social engineering in a Muslim republic trying to remain secular. Just like primary education was made compulsory for all children (no such thing as "home schooling" allowed) so that girls as well as boys would be sent to school, especially in rural areas where most girls were never sent to school by their families and were illiterate.

When girls have to be sent to school along with boys and they can't have headscarves, families can't segregate them from boys and they can't force them to cover up. Then they reach the age of 11, and now it is much harder to make them obey pressures to segregate and cover, even if they don't continue education. This was the old system, anyway, before the religious government recently changed it all.

I do realize that I am preaching to a very unreceptive audience Smile especially since many of you are British "reverts" who can't possibly understand the problems of a largely ignorant and conservative population and the difficulties of keeping it secular.

Still, those were the difficulties Turkey had to fight against to be the only Muslim population to enjoy a secular republic.

CoteDAzur · 05/01/2013 09:40

I don't want to go on about politics in a thread about religion, but someone asked about "deep state" and I just have to tell you the hilarious but true story of how it all came to light Grin

in 1996, these people had an accident in the same car, in a place called Susurluk:

  • an old head of Police
  • an ultra-nationalist assassin on Interpol's red list
  • a member of parliament who was the head of a powerful Kurdish clan

HOW were these people even in the same car?!?

Google Susurluk if you are interested.

crescentmoon · 05/01/2013 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nailak · 05/01/2013 18:05

being british and being a revert doesnt mean that you are white or that you havent got family and "origins" in countries that may be similar to Turkey.

I have a friend from Tunisa who told me the same thing about hijab not being allowed there previously.

HardlyEverHoovers · 05/01/2013 18:40

Actually Cote, it is really interesting to hear the Turkish story from a different perspective. Nailak is right in that many people do have some experience and knowledge of these things, but I must admit I'm not one of them and am incredibly naive about politics, so I do appreciate hearing both sides of the coin.
I'm also realistic about the fact that I gew up in a secular, liberal household, and got to choose my Islam, rather than have it forced upon me.

nailak · 05/01/2013 19:01

cote, why didnt you choose islam?

CoteDAzur · 05/01/2013 20:08

nailak - I just never believed in God. Not even as a child. Some of my earliest memories are of asking people if they really believe in some invisible person who controls everything and why (preschool).

Fortunately, I was born in a secular country so I lived to tell Smile

I suppose if I believed in God, I would have been Muslim. As it is, I just know a lot about Islam and know loads of Muslims, many from my immediate family.

I have to say, though, I find it very difficult to understand how British women born to liberal families give up all those liberties, cover up head to toe, accept to be segregated from men, and have arranged marriages with some guy just because he is Muslim. (I also find it hard to understand how people believe in God, so don't take it personally Smile).

CoteDAzur · 05/01/2013 20:09

HardlyEver - I'd be interested to hear your story, if you care to share it.

How does a British girl from a liberal family decide to become Muslim? I'm curious.

nailak · 05/01/2013 21:00

cote i am long past taking anything you say personally!! lol

couldnt find pdf or online extracts of book but here www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3641016/That-Muslim-woman-could-be-happier-than-you....html

nailak · 05/01/2013 21:01

I am the oppossite from u cote, I always believed in God, I always talked to God.

CoteDAzur · 06/01/2013 09:19

Has your conversation with God changed at all from when you were Christian?

Is it a monologue or an actual conversation? (i.e. Do you feel like you get replies in between your lines)

CoteDAzur · 06/01/2013 09:23

nailak - I think you misunderstood me when I referred to British-born Muslim converts probably having trouble understanding the difficulties of keeping a largely ignorant population secular.

I wasn't talking about having experience with a headscarf ban.

nailak · 06/01/2013 12:39

I was Hindu.

CoteDAzur · 06/01/2013 13:25

Ok, so has your conversation changed from when you were Hindu?

Is it the same God you are talking to, do you think?

crescentmoon · 06/01/2013 17:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nailak · 06/01/2013 17:34

How has it changed? Well for me it hasn't, it is the same God. I realised that I had always believed in one God and I had no issue in accepting Muhammad sas as the last messenger of God. For me it was just a realisation of what I had always believed. My concept of what is God has got clearer, instead of believing in one God with avatars I realised it was actually messengers.

My parents were fine, my dads first wife was Sikh their kids from that marriage are Sikh and Christian, my sisters first husband was Gambian muslim she met while with vso, and her current husband is catholic French, my mums dp is polish catholic, my DBS gf is Lutheran Danish. My family is multicultural. I think because in 1947 my family were in south Africa, they missed all the animosity of partition between Hindus Sikhs and Muslims, that my Hindu and Sikh friends had been ingrained with from a young age.

WaynettaSlobsLover · 06/01/2013 17:55

Asalaamalaikum :) I'm a revert muslim. Watching this thread with interest.

HardlyEverHoovers · 06/01/2013 18:11

cote, I will answer your question, when I haven't got DS crawling all over me...

firefly11 · 06/01/2013 18:22

nailak Funny you mention your parents are from South Africa. Its great you have such an accommodating family. My South African Afrikaner inlaws won't take to having a Muslim in their family nicely that's for sure. My husband was told by his pious Catholic father from a young age to not socialise with Muslims. It wasn't said, but implied that it'd be unacceptable to marry non white. He was a rule breaker. dated a half Indian girl which his parents tolerated but it was clear they weren't pleased, talked behind her back a lot apparently. I would say I haven't received too much grief from them even though I'm a non white. But they are hardcore Christians and well, I told them I wasn't religious and tried to explain it was because I didn't want to choose between my parents' faiths - dad is Thai Buddhist, mum is a lapsed Roman Catholic. In reality my mum couldn't give a toss what I believed in, only my Dad minded, but that was my way of easing my in laws into it. They accepted it. It was fine. But yeah I would imagine if I became a Muslim they would be very disappointed. I can't imagine how. They have been nice in laws to me so far, and I would have to think really hard about upsetting this relationship.

The other way would be to keep it from them like one of my Muslim friends did - she married an Austrian guy whose family are strict Catholics, and even though her husband converted, they both would never tell their in laws for his Dad would flip. They only tell their in laws to not serve pork because of health reasons. She's not a strict Muslim and doesn't wear hijab, pray 5 times, neither does her husband. So its not too hard to hide it from her in laws when they go to Austria to stay and visit.

I am personally aware of many other family relationships and marriages where religious differences are not always so easily reconciled. I had Chinese friends in Singapore whilst growing up, who converted to Christianity as teenagers but kept it secret from their traditionally Chinese Buddhist parents, because Hell would break loose if they found out. I also had other Chinese friends who converted to Christianity but chose not to keep it secret to their Chinese Buddhist parents, and this created such a rift between them that my friends eventually moved out of the family home as soon as they can. But now one of them has reverted to Chinese Buddhism again recently so... makes you wonder if it was worth all that aggro in the first place telling it to her parents.

There's a saying "If friends want to stay friends, don't discuss religion or politics." These are very divisive issues.

HardlyEverHoovers · 06/01/2013 21:45

"How does a British girl from a liberal family decide to become Muslim?"

I always knew that God existed, despite being told otherwise, but didn't really have the opportunity to explore this belief. I buried it for a long time, and lived with a feeling of unspecific discontent until my mid 20's. At this point I would say that my life was shallow, I was an arrogant person, I had built an identity for myself based on meaningless things. I had no limits in my life, other than 'don't hurt anyone', but as is inevitable with a morality based on flawed human intellect I hurt others and myself. In the language of the Quran, I wronged my own soul.
Through a shared interest which was unrelated to religion I met a Muslim family who I became very friendly with. They were practising Sufi-ish Muslims, and I was fascinated by them, and also really admired their dignity. It didn't take long before I started asking questions, and then ensued a period of time filled with lots of late night soul searching conversations. This was the first time in my entire life that I was having conversations which were actually reaching the depths that I had inside me, and it was an amazing time.
These people were immensely helpful (and still are) but very hesitant not to be pushy, and I went further afield to find out more information (I was also a bit embarrassed to tell them how interested I really was). Eventually someone gave me a Quran. I read it from cover to cover. At first I found it really harsh, I had never read the bible or any other religious book. But then this happened:

"Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah . That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills". (Quran 39:23)

I had to research a lot of issues I had misconceptions about before I could accept Islam and agree to live by its' rules. But having done the 'liberal' experiment I could certainly accept that their needed to be rules.

"I find it very difficult to understand how British women born to liberal families give up all those liberties, cover up head to toe, accept to be segregated from men, and have arranged marriages with some guy just because he is Muslim"

As I said, it was easy to give up liberties that I realised got me nowhere, but I should make it clear that as a Muslim woman I have worked, studied, played a role within the Muslim community, been outspoken about important issues, and have received far more respect from Muslim men than I ever did from non-Muslim men.

Covering head to toe I always found easy, I see it as a sign of dignity, not oppression.

Muslims vary in the amount of segregation they require. I rarely socialise with men, apart from an exceptional couple of families where we might all eat a meal together, and I am happy with this. But at work, in organising events for Muslims, in general life I have contact with men. Muslim women all over the world have contact with men all the time, which is fine so long as etiquette is observed.

I didn't have an arranged marriage (most converts don't as it's normally parents who arrange a marriage). My husband asked me to marry him and I said yes, completely of my own free will. And I also didn't marry him just because he was Muslim, although that was definately a necessity!

Hope this long reply answers your question Cote!

nailak · 06/01/2013 23:10

firefly my mum alwyas had muslim friends growing up, the way south africa was is that indians were living together in one area, and going to school together, and that comprised muslims and hindus.

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