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Philosophy/religion

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Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

999 replies

Galvanise · 01/12/2012 00:21

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

OP posts:
crescentmoon · 20/12/2012 15:01

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firefly11 · 20/12/2012 15:51

crescentmoon I guess I have difficulty deciding on which prophet is right. They all say different things although the belief in one God is shared by all the Abrahamic faiths. I am sort of stuck between them. And yet also cannot reconcile my lack of belief in Heaven and Hell with any of them. Well, in Judaism they don't believe in Hell so it's a bit more congruent with my beliefs. But they do believe in Heaven though it seems. I think I incline more to Judaism in terms of belief. But I won't bother with conversion to Judaism because halachically I am not Jewish. And they don't require conversion to go to Heaven anyway but I don't care much about Heaven because I don't really believe there's heaven.

firefly11 · 20/12/2012 16:00

I'm sorry for hijacking the thread by the way. I realise its gone quite off topic now for me to be talking about what I believe... It's really about how many Muslims there are on MN, not my beliefs. Blush

firefly11 · 20/12/2012 16:08

I'm at this stage now where I'm still a non religious Deist but very interested in learning about different religions. But I have an interest in Islam because I know many Muslims. But not sure yet about conversion because I also have an interest in Christianity and Judaism, Bahai and Zoroastrianism...

nailak · 20/12/2012 16:35

firefly and what do you think about worship? do you think we can worship anything if God is in everything?

jzk crescent

nailak · 20/12/2012 16:38

dont apologise! threads evolve.

first figure out what you believe and read up on everything that interests you, which it sounds like you are doing, dont worry about conversion right now!

Even when the Quran was revealed, first the verses about beliefs and God were revealed, then later the commandments came.

and Islam believes all the Prophets peace be upon them were right.

crescentmoon · 20/12/2012 17:17

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firefly11 · 20/12/2012 20:04

nailak Interesting question there. Hmm I have been wondering what the difference is, or if there is a difference between worship and prayer. It does appear to mean slightly different things to different people. I pray when I feel the need to, but not necessarily when I'm in trouble or in need of help. Sometimes I see something in nature that's so beautiful and I immediately want to say a prayer/commuicate with God, and in my prayer I thank God for that. I think of God as a loving presence. God created everything but everything has God's essence in it. I don't particularly judge things in life as fair or unfair because I think only God knows why things are here/happen and that I may probably never know those reasons only God knows.

crescentmoon I think that my idea of God as an ever present, ever knowing, powerful, loving entity is somewhat related to my non-acceptance of the concept of Hell. I just cannot get how a God like this would want to subject people to torture for eternity. I don't entirely subscribe to the Free Will argument totally. I believe we all have Free Will but only up to an extent. The rest is up to God. Its kind of like the saying, "God only helps those who help themselves" but then I also accept that sometimes, God does not appear to help us in ways we expect because we don't really know the reasons why things are the way they are. And if "help" doesn't seem forthcoming from God it could be that its for reasons we cannot fathom, but there is a reason why. Just we mere mortals can't fathom.

Most of my friends who are Muslim are Malays of Indonesian or Javanese descent, as I spent many years growing up in Singapore. They do seem to be less strict Muslims - I mean the ones I'm friends with! They aspire to be one day donning the hijab everyday, but are not yet readyfor it, so to speak. I have met in England, Muslim women who are either very strict or Tunisians who, outwardly, I couldn't tell were Muslims at all in the way they looked or dressed but they were the ones who sort of sparked my fascination for Islam in a way as they broke my stereotypes of what being Muslim meant. I have been on many internet Islam forums just reading the comments and also have seen some Muslims calling those who aren't keeping to the religion strictly as kaffirs or "sufis" and wanting to establish a Caliphate in the West or something! But I think some are very extreme... and that gives Islam a bad name to those who don't know any better. Even my Muslim friends from Singapore (well the ones who are kind of "Muslim lite") told me to stay away from "Wahabbis/Salafis" if I want to learn more about Islam. They also mentioned sometime about the "arabisation" of Islam which they don't agree with and well, honestly I don't know that much about all these divisions and sects within the Muslim world... I wouldn't know how to tell who is a "Wahabbi"?? but I am just sticking to reading the Quran, Hadiths and Seerah for now. Though I am also reading the Bible at the same time , so lots of reading going on !

I did some sort of a religion quiz on Beliefnet and it says the religion for me is Unitarian Universalist. Maybe for now that is quite correct... given I have not yet found myself believing in Heaven and Hell. Which you are correct in saying that is an important aspect of Islam which is quite central to why it can ask so much from its adherents... which I realised as I read the Quran. Which is why I feel I'm not quite ready to convert or anything... I cannot do anything just because God says so in a holy book, because I don't quite believe literally in what is being mentioned in the book. When I see Hell mentioned in the Quran or the Bible I think it just means its really bad to do what it says not to do, but I cannot believe in it literally.

Cuddledup · 20/12/2012 21:02

Firefly thanks for asking all the questions you've posted, I've really enjoyed reading your posts and the replies. Like you I'm also on a spiritual journey but haven't reached my destination yet, but I do find Islam v interesting and attractive. I have real problems with Christianity - I just don't get the claim that Jesus is the "son of God" - but I do see him as a prophet / inspiring teacher. At the moment I occasionally go to Quaker meetings as I like the peace and sense of community.

Crescent can you recommend an online Quaran- that's easy to read. Xmas Grin
thank you

nailak · 20/12/2012 21:20

www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx you can listen to different recitations and read different translations

worship can be anything it depends on intention, like charity, fasting greeting someone, keeping family ties, even sex is worship.

when we see something like that we say subhanAllah (glory be to Allah).
I meant that some religions who believe god is everywhere, worship as in pray to stones, statues, animals or whatever, what do you feel about that? seeing the glory and might of the Creator in the Creation is different from believing that god is actually INSIDE everything, therefore you can pray to anything and that will be praying to God.

As for free will, I believe we have free will to the extent that we perceive choice, however I believe in the qadr of Allah, and that is pre determination.

nailak · 20/12/2012 21:23

Also on ebay you can get free Quran and also IDCI has free book packs they can send you

IDCI free pack idci.co.uk/Pack-of-10-Publications-3100-d

ebay 1p Quran free postage www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-MEANING-OF-THE-HOLY-QURAN-IN-MODERN-ENGLISH-/170961973565?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item27ce20b13d

firefly11 · 20/12/2012 23:57

nailak Thing you said about idol worship - I have a lot of experience with that! I grew up with a Thai Buddhist father (hence I was brought up for many years as a child in Singapore, because that was his birthplace) who was very religious and the thing about Thai Buddhism which seems different from the kind of Buddhism I have seen in the West is that they really do that whole idolatry thing to the max! I mean, growing up, I saw my father spend lots of money collecting all manner of statues and statuettes around the home. Eventually he had 2 shrines at home each dedicated to different gods and apart from that, hundreds more in display cases! It does seem mad.. well as a child, I always thought it was bizarre. Never subscribed to it. He bought amulet necklaces that I "must" wear in order to protect me from bad things. Well I did go along with it, just to please him. My mother had a Bible lying around in the house and I took it out to browse for interest's sake one day and accidentally left it lying around, which my Dad saw and he got real upset with me like saying he was gonna disown me if I ever became a Christian. etc. But then when I was about 15 I had decided there was no point believing in God (or Gods) because I just never felt it, and never believed in it.

I kept it secret from my Dad though because I knew he would be upset. When I was about 16 I didn't care any more and one day when he told me to pray to Buddha for some special day, maybe Vesak Day or some other religious thing, and I said I'm not doing it, because I don't believe in it. His face just went black and he said something like if you don't believe in God you will have nothing, etc.
But that was that and after that he was okay with me (did take a while though) but he never asked me to join him in prayer again.

Hmm... anyway, so fast forward to now - do I believe that you can pray to the tree or to statues? Hmm... no. I would say no. I still don't believe in that. I think God made us and in a sense, a bit of God is in everything in this world. However, I somehow believe that God is also a separate entity from all his creation and that is the God I pray to. I don't pray to trees or idols, etc.. That's just me.

Cuddledup I'm glad you found what I said of use. I was concerned I was hijacking the thread and I still do so I will perhaps refrain from commenting as much now. Islam is very interesting. I am a bit of a gadget geek so I use the Quran for Android app on my tablet to read the Quran - its a really good app, has the audio to accompany the Arabic text. And the Daily Hadiths app to read Hadiths daily. I am finding the Seerah very interesting and inspiring, and helps me understand a bit more about Islam than just reading the Quran and Hadiths. The Seerah is the life story of the prophet Muhammed. I read that online here so you may want to check it out if you're interested www.musalla.org/Articles/Seerah/index.htm I think I go through about 2 pages a night. Slowly and surely. I love hearing the Islamic prayers (you can search them on Youtube) being chanted... it truly is very soothing.

My husband's family are full on hardcore Christians. My husband himself isn't practising and hates going to churches, though he isn't atheist, he believes in God but doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell One thing I have found hard to understand about Christianity is the Trinity. I think if I can "get" that, then I may find it easier to accept Christianity. I have been reading some stuff about the Quakers and ordered the introductory pack from the Quaker Society of Friends. The book is quite a good read.

nailak · 21/12/2012 10:08

Yes firefly, I believe it is like a painter, the painter paints the painting so his thoughts and feelings are apparent in the painting, but he himself cannot be inside it. Allah is like this. Allah cannot be inside his creation.

Therefore we cannot believe in the trinity. We believe the holy ghost refers to the Angel Gabriel. We believe that there is a measure of what is God given in the Quran in a surah called Ikhlas.

"
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."

So we cannot believe God has a begotten son.

Here is an interesting former CHristian pastors story about understanding the trinity. just watch the bit from 23.30 where he is talking about the trinity for a few mins. The background is he is a preacher and he had a Muslim house guest, he wanted to convert the guest to Christianity.

I was brought up Hindu, so we are not that different!

crescentmoon · 21/12/2012 16:41

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crescentmoon · 22/12/2012 08:37

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crescentmoon · 22/12/2012 08:42

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Cuddledup · 22/12/2012 08:47

Crescent thank you for all this food for thought, I shall read it and ponder.

nailak · 23/12/2012 23:52

subhanAllah, I got a poem published in sisters mag!!! just had to share the good news! and I also got accepted to mumsnet bloggers network whoop alhamdulillah
2 birds one stone, blog and poem is here!! I am so excited! I turned the page and got a shock to see my name in print!!

muslimahdirections.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/100/

mariammama · 24/12/2012 00:32

Hi crescentmoon. Just waving as a passing Christian to agree I'm not offended when you say the theology of the Trinity is a mystery of faith, which, whilst it can be taught to children, is not easily grasped by human logic alone.

mariammama · 24/12/2012 00:39

If it isn't cheeky, would appreciate some advice / thoughts from the ladies here about traditional RC and veil advice

nailak · 24/12/2012 00:48

" 2. Do you believe that the Church was wrong for two thousand years,
concerning the veil, and the feminists corrected the error by getting women to abandon it? 3. If you are a
woman who has chosen not to wear the veil, could you give a reason which would illustrate that your choice
comes from a deep and profound love of God?

Answering these questions will give you a pretty good idea as to whom you are giving your allegiance.
The veil, when it is worn for the right reasons (respect and submission), along with a beautiful dress,
compliments a woman?s femininity. So it could be said that the veil is a beautiful expression of a woman?s
femininity"

I would agree with these implications. Mary wore a veil. She is one of the 4 most importnat women in Islam.

mariammama · 24/12/2012 15:22

thank you

firefly11 · 24/12/2012 16:45

Thank you crescent , nailak and mariam for adding to this thread. I have found lots of food for thought from all this. Oh and I had a look at your blog nailak. Congrats on the published poem Smile

crescentmoon · 24/12/2012 17:54

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HardlyEverHoovers · 25/12/2012 09:57

Wow, you turn your back for a few days and a thread explodes!
Have really enjoyed catching up with this thread. Asalam u alikum Nailak, it's lovely to see you here, I remember your kind advice to me from a previous thread.
Crescent, sooo lovely to read about your familys history with Sufism, what a lovely connection to have. Are your grandparents still alive and have you spoken to them much about these things?

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