Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

[nailak]

ok ignore the last question, this is not the right place

[nailak]

ok, i get the bit about hinduism being older, the way i see it is if it Christianity became so corrupted in a few hundred years then in 5000 years Hinduism became more corrupted, although there is still truth in it's teachings.

The Hadith of jibreel, are you talking about ihsan? "The man said, ?You have spoken the truth. Now, tell me about spiritual excellence (ihsan).?
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, ?It is to serve Allah as though you behold Him; and if you don?t behold him, (know that) He surely sees you."

I see what you are saying, you are saying that those who dont care about the ummah, or even our neighbours and immediate community, are lacking, which is what the Prophet sas says. Now days a lot of people talk about first work on yourself and that will effect your family etc, personally I don't believe in this, I feel if you wait until you are perfect to help the community, then you will be waiting for ever!

I guess you are saying that a lot of the point of religion is some sort of social conscience and harmony, which is self actualisation?

There is a hadith about a pious man in a corrupt city and Allah ordered the city burned, the angels came back to him and said are you sure? there is a good man there, and Allah swt ordered the fire started at his house as the man didnt try to change his community and do dawah.

I think individualisation is a product of the times we live in where people are only bothered about themselves.

On a separate note, I am doing an essay about reformation, and I can see many similaraties between the xtian reformatian ideals in 16thc and the modern "Islamic revival" theologically many of the same issues are being discussed. I thought it was quite interesting!

jazakallahkhayr for answering my questions sis.

[nailak]

Also I agree about not being abke to ignore scholars that came after teh tayibeen, like Al Ghazzalli etc who dedicated their lives to understanding Islam, we have had 1400 years of scholarship and insight, to just chuck that all away seems strange.

what do you mean it is a political statement? to say we are on the way of the salaf? I mean obviously like you say it is a bit insulting because we all are! lol, but my husband says he is just Muslim even though we follow madhab etc he doesnt see the need to say it and differentiate himself from other muslims. He even has some shia friends and doesnt make takfir on them, when I talk to him he just asks me how many shia i know and if i have ever talked to them about their beliefs.


Another question, may sound strange but who./what is Muhamad sallalahu allayhi asalaam? I mean I have read some books talking about him being made from noor, the whole of creation being created for his sake, him sas being the first thing created and so on. I guess this question goes alongside who is Allah, as in it is an aqeedah question not a fiqh one.

To what extent can we accept differences in aqeedah?

[nailak]

but thats just it, how different can aqeedah be before we say we are different religions and we are not the same? I mean we can say we sahre 90% of aqeedah with some other monotheistic religions, and churches which are not trinitarian etc.

[nailak]

I have read this, and I think I am still digesting and pondering it.

for me aqeedah is not an ivory tower subject, it is the essence of what it means to be Muslim, it is who/what is Allah and who/what is the messenger, without truly understanding what is the creator then we cannot understand other stuff, like the importance of his laws, how we may disagree with them but Allah knows best etc, how we should love Muhammad sas better then our own family, I mean we can say these things, but we cannot have true realisation and acceptance of it without aqeedah.

I studied aqidah al tahawiyya and that is my aqeedah. tbh i dont know much in a academic sense of the differences between aqidah, i just know what i observe and my husband observes,

like the whole concept of saints interceeding and praying at shrines changes the way we view Allah, and changes everything, stuff like taweez changes the whole concept of Islam imo.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Really enjoying 'listening in' on your conversation Nailak and Crescentmoon. Have learnt a lot from your discussion.
For my part, I try not to make distinctions between Muslims in my interactions with them, although personally I identify strongly with the traditional scholars. It does make me very sad in my work with new Muslims that the Salafi perspective is now 'default Islam', and once they have come accross that it is very difficult to convince them of the validity of anything else. Many people do not even realise their beliefs come Salafism, so effective are they in spreading their message.
It also makes me sad that some 'Sufis' I know would not even sit with a Salafi, have them in their house, or go to a mosque which is supposedly Salafi, I really think this is wrong, we are all Muslims and need to be united, as you said Crescentmoon, the majority of our beleifs are identical.

[firefly11]

Happy New Year to everyone here too By the way, am really glad you addressed the Wahhabi issue crescent as I have heard nothing but negative from my Muslim friends from Singapore. One of the things mentioned to me before was how the Saudis are selfish and won't help other Muslims in trouble. Recent example told to me was the Rohingyas in Burma. Or the issue in Palestine. My friend is more inclined to the Sufi side although she feels its out of her reach and she's not yet disciplined enough to even do the five prayers a day...she was also turned off Islam for a while because of the Wahhabis she's encountered... she is however a big fan of Turkey... whom she said stepped in to help the Rohingyas... and she feels they are an Islamic nation which holds promise..

[firefly11]

In addition, she (she lives in Oz now) says that this crazy fighting in the Middle East between Sunnis, Shias, Sufis, etc... does not occur elsewhere. In her local Turkish mosque in Oz, there are Shias, Sunnis, Ahmadiyyas, etc. all peacefully coexisting and friendly with each other.

[nailak]

I have a friend who grew up in Bahrain, she had shia friends and stuff there was never an issue, then all of a sudden issues started.

Maybe new muslims gravitiate towards salafis since they are the ones organising events and who are visible? if it wasnt for my husband i am sure i would have gone down that path.

[firefly11]

I think it is to do with politics and greed and power hunger sometimes. I was asking my friend about this organisation IERA which has been distributing free Qurans on the streets and I saw some Youtube vids of Hamza Tzortzis .. she said they are Wahhabi funded and are like "evangelists going around villages preaching Christianity"... lol... I think they have a lot of funding because they are Saudi linked? And they actively proselytise... it seems. So yeah maybe that's why they may be responsible for drawing more converts... and more importantly, converts who only believe in that ideology.

[nailak]

i like iera, i think abdur raheem green is fantastic, i like hamza tzortis as well, when i first came to islam these are the things i was watching, and i still sometimes watch abdur raheem, green in hyde park vids and stuff out of enjoyment, and if he is coming to a local masjid i make sure i go. I also rate his videos when he is admitting stuff i not a lot of muslims wouldnt admit, like how when he first reverted he would be in a party with a drink in his hand talking about how great islam was.

I think as muslims we are supposed to do dawah and actively proselytise, but for me this is more about my actions then preaching, it is about some of the stuff i say on threads on mumsnet, for me that is my dawah, and i am not going to stand on street corners.

[nailak]

i think sometimes we can take the good and leave the bad

[CoteDAzur]

crescent - It's interesting (for me) that you are interested in Rumi & the Mevlevi Order. I've never read his verses in English and have to say that they are unrecognizeable!

Did you know that Rumi is not his name?

On another note: I don't mean to pick a fight but this made me :

"she is however a big fan of Turkey... and she feels they are an Islamic nation which holds promise.."

Islamic government which has destroyed the secular army imprisoning hundreds of highest-ranked leaders, bullied and buried independent journalists in jail for years without a charge, annihilated the justice system such that anyone who raises their voice against them is prosecuted and often jailed with ridiculous allegations. If you are interested in how wonderful a path Turkey has been travelling on in the last 15 years or so, I can tell you all about it

Yes, another of this Islamic government's "achievements" is that Turkey is inching closer and closer to a full-blown Islamic republic. I suppose that is the "promise" your friend feels that Turkey holds

[firefly11]

cote Wow really? Well I don't know how much she knows about Turkey.. but she is really thinking they are a great country. She is definitely not a hard core Muslim. She does not wear hijab, does not cover everything other than hands. She does stay away from pork, that sort of thing, but is very lax otherwise. As a born Muslim. I get the feeling she likes Turkey because of the secularity of it, definitely not the aspect of shutting down secular voices. Maybe she doesn't know... hmm ...

I don't know very much either. I have only been in Turkey once having stopped over on a Turkish Airways flight. If Turkey is going that way... hmm is it because the government is getting more fundamentalist or something?? I think also she's probably influenced in her opinion by the people she meets - she's probably met Turks who are like her and so... .. I'd be very interested if you have any links or stuff I may forward to her for reading. Although she may have already known?? hmm... who knows!

nailak and crescent I actually knew about Hamza whilst watching a video where he confronted Aron Ra and PZ Myers outside an atheist convention and tried to engage them in a debate. I felt he wasn't a bad person, quite likeable actually, friendly, humble... ? But I felt his arguments were a lost cause. PZ Myers was not interested in what ifs. What if there is something controlling all you see, what if God is behind it... and he tried to argue about how the Quran is God's work because some things said in there turned out to be similar to recent scientific research. And then PZ was saying, no its not similar. Its not accurate. etc.. it was a very entertaining video though to me I saw another vid of him handing out leaflets on the street and EDL members approached him and he was very good at his social skills... got them all to shake hands with him and leave peacefully.

[firefly11]

crescent btw my friend does say the same thing as you regarding the Saudis destroying ancient religious sites for commercial purposes.

[firefly11]

Me personally though, I think I'm with her in the sense that we believe in secularity in public life. And religion is a private matter. We don't like going around telling people in real life our beliefs as we feel its our business. I remember asking on a Muslim forum once if its possible to be Muslim and secular, and the overwhelming response was no. But she would tell me don't listen to what others say. People don't have to start wearing cotton jubah, grow beards and stop listening to music because they are Muslim. I can see why some other stricter Muslims would say she's not a true Muslim, etc. I'm really not interested in all that fighting and that's one reason why I am remaining non religious.