Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

Cote I do not feel like a baby trust me. I have two kids and one on the way and the body of an 80 year old it feels like. I don't mind being patronised...as long as who's doing it is older than me ;). Sparkling its really insightful reading what you have to say. And I can also see both sides of the coin. I think now it's difficult as the kids are young and also impressionable, but the reality is that regardless of all the religion stuff, they will grow older and make up their own minds. At least your kids are secure in the knowledge nothing is ever going to be forced on them, and actually that they are fortunate to have open minded parents.

i have a 10 year old niece, her mother and aunts dont wear hijab, some of her sisters/cousins do. I used to live in her house with her until she was 6 so have quite a good idea of family life. father is very westernised, mother is very cultural as in it takes a while before you understand her concept of Islam and how it influences her life as it is quite deep down and not something regularly talked about etc

anyway at 9 she said she wanted to wear hijab so her mum let her. I dont know how difficult it is to understand the concept of hijab?

as a teenager me and my friends definitely had strong views and many discussions about religion and faith. so my experience of that seems to be totally opposite to yours! like i said from a child i talked to God and believed in him!

I said earlier in this thread i dont think the type of secularism where religion is not allowed in public life is compatible with Islam.

If I had the choice I would like my kids to go to a school where Islam is on the agenda. and if they cannot do that I would like the school to respect their and my beliefs and encourage the children to learn about each others beliefs.

"at 9 she said she wanted to wear hijab so her mum let her"

For what conceivable purpose? She is a child and shouldn't be covering her head as she is not yet concerned with all the sexual hang-ups of her parents' religion.

Shouldn't she have another couple of years to feel the breeze in her hair?

It depends on the child Cote, some kids are very headstrong and have made their minds up about things from a very early age. I'm the same as nailak but brought up in an atheist/non religious household...although I would always talk to god. Even if the child decides to don the hijab at that early age for whatever reason, provided the parents aren't extremists, then she can easily take it off.

I know about headstrong children. I was one

Still, it is entirely possible to say "That is for when you are older. It is not yet time for you to worry about covering up."

If it was my child, I would say those words- "not until you're older" because I think children should be children for as long as possible and unfortunately due to the way some Islamic clergy present hijab, impressionable young girls may immediately see themselves as sexual beings and feel responsible for men's 'lusts' lack of self control

cote to please Allah? to be recognised as a Muslim? she can feel the breeze any time she wants, no one makes her keep it on, she can put it on and off as she pleases, sometimes she doesnt wear it, but for school and stuff she does.

her elder sister didnt wear hijab untill she was in her twenties, so no one is going to force her!

i dont think in her mind it has anything to do with sex, at 9 it is to do with identity. She has not met any islamic clergy or had anything to do with them! she learns qaida from a womans house (without correct tajweed, without islamic studies, just qaida and duas).

at 9 a lot of kids have sexual feelings. i think we forget.

If that's her choice then it should be respected. I'm saying if it was my daughter and she was under the impression that girls have to cover hair to stop men looking at them or wanting to do bad things to them, it's not something I would encourage at all. If this little girl in particular does it for the sake of Allah which I find really sweet at such a young age, and to be recognised as a Muslimah, she should wear hijab and enjoy it.

it has to be pointed out since she is the youngest of 6 and the next one up is 10+ years older that she is very mature and grown up in her character

I don't know whether this will get many replies but I wanted to ask you sisters about your view on contraception. I mean we know Rasooloolah (saw) allowed coitus interruptus amongst his followers..and also encouraged the Ummah as a whole to have many children. So far I think we're doing ok on the 'have loads of kids' front but I wanted to know how you see it, if you think the pill/coil is haram, and if you think it's possible to have many kids and dedicate enough time to them all.

I've worn hijab since I was 10, my parents are very relaxed.

None of my sisters wear hijab and nobody cares.

My girls sometimes wear hijab when we go out sometimes they don't.

I've never said no, it's not negatively affecting them or making them inappropriately sexually aware either.

They also wear fairy wings to tescos, and once my eldest wore her pjs to nursery because she loved them too much to take off. Nursery staff prolly thought I was bonkers and a bad mum, but were too polite to say so.

Within reason, I think my children should be allowed a degree of autonomy in their lives.
I can't be bothered to fight them over every little thing, especially things I do myself.

As for contraception, I believe it's totally up to the individual.

I believe it is permissable to space out children while breast feeding or so you can dedicate time to their education etc, and you can raise then properly.

"to be recognised as a Muslim?"

Is there any chance that people might think she is a slave girl?

"to please Allah? "

If children wearing the hijab would please Allah, he would have asked them to wear it. Afaik children are to be children, innocent of all these concerns and it is not until a girl has her period (and her body changes?) that she is saddled with men's lust issues to cover up.

It's the slippery slope into absurdity of competitive religious fervour: Allah is pleased if women cover their heads and bosoms > I'll please him more if I wear a veil > I'll please him much more if I wear the burqa

Allah is pleased if women wear the hijab > so children can also wear to please him > Then what? Should the hijab be a part of babies' one-piece suits? Would that please Allah?

If not, then why should a child's hijab please Allah?

Children should be encouraged to live in a carefree way. Especially if this is the only time in their lives when they will get to feel the breeze in their air while they bicycle or put on a bathing suit and swim in the pool

Cote - it's definitely not the only time a kid will get to swim in a pool, feel the breeze in their hair or put on a bathing suit. Unless the parents are mad in the head somehow. Me and dh specifically have our holidays in private villas that come with a pool, so fine for me personally if I want to strip off and sunbathe or swim. Likewise my Turkish friends and their mum book women's only holidays in turkey/Cyprus where they have women's only beach areas and resorts, so nobody's exactly missing out. This is not the case for every woman, particularly those who cover completely, but thankfully many of us have the option of putting on a bathing suit and enjoying the sun and swimming. I will say this year in summer, since I'm pregnant, it'll be a relief to enjoy the breeze in my hair, as I haven't felt that in a few years now. I have to say as someone who wore batty riders and tight vest tops in hot weather, I would choose my nice light kaftans and linen trousers over those any day. I found the tighter the clothes and the more skin that was shown, the hotter I was. Not to mention wearing a bikini and being self conscious about cellulite or my boobs falling out of my top lol.

RE the headscarf issue. I think people feel differently about children wearing headscarves because they view the headscarf itself so differently. To women who wear it it's just not a big deal, it's just another item of clothing, and something that little girls (and boys, my DS puts mine on regularly and looks very cute) associate with being grown up.
There's no argument of course that little girls do not need it, but if it's something that you hope they will take on as they grow up (and as Nailak said, it's perfectly normal to teach your children the same way of life as you - that's what everybody does) this is a good opportunity to teach them about it and give them positive associations with it.

I want my daughter, whether she wears headscarf or not, to have positive association with it and respect her sisters in islam whatever they choose to wear. I don't like the attitude some have with regards to covering as they tell their children things that either have no evidence or they teach them to look down upon those who don't cover to their standard. Once when I was at a family friends house, the little daughter aged only about 7 told me confidently that a girl would have all her hair burn up in hellfire if she did not wear a headscarf. I was pretty shocked about it, even though I wore scarf at the time, and actually in that same family the eldest daughter has removed her scarf, much to the despair of her parents and siblings. It's once again too much emphasis on the external rather than the internal, such as praying regularly and giving charity etc.

Come on then....views on contraception!!!! And having a ton of kids!!!!

cote she goes swimming with school and rides a bicycle, like i said no one forces it on her, most of the time she wears it sometimes she doesnt.

identity is more then being a slave girl or not, and many people see hijab as part of their identity. what is wrong with this?

to be recognised as a muslim is also more then being known to be a slave or not!

I don't think that babies should wear hijab, however to say a mature ten year old is same as a baby is ridiculous.

i am not sure about the religious competition you talk about. i understand what you are saying. but i dont think we can say because some peope use it as a competition others shouldnt wear it. there are also thousands of girls in the uk which dont wear abayah or those who wear abayah and not niqaab and are comfortable with that, so how does this fit in to your theory about being competitive? all those skinny jean hijabis, who wear hijab for identity and not modesty, are they competitive?

any way has anyone seen Lauren Booths fb status? here

"Lauren Booth
My daughters were verbally attacked Monday at a Health Club in North London. Trying to stay modest they were changing in the toilets when a woman in her 30's began banging on the doors telling them to hurry up. I quietly said the girls were 'just trying to be modest, sorry for any inconvenience.' When they came out in their hijabs the woman said; 'oh it would YOU lot. Modest? You can't be effing modest when you are blowing up buildings!' She yelled in their faces (I was around the corner at the time). Both girls cried. We have involved the police who are taking this seriously, I am pleased to say. May Allah SWT bless all our young sisters living in European and American states whose efforts to stay modest draw hatred and ridicule fro the ignorant and the hate filled. Ameen."

I can't help thinking if this was an aibu, the answer would be yabu hidden disabilities etc...

My understanding was that wearing the hijab would mean not actually taking it off in (mixed) public from then on. What is the point of wearing the hijab one day then swimming with the boys with possibly male lifeguards/teachers looking on? Genuine question.

"to say a mature ten year old is same as a baby is ridiculous"

I didn't say that and you know I didn't. Everyone knows they are not the same.

What I said was to point at the reduction to absurdity that comes with the slippery slope of assuming doing more and earlier of what is asked will please Allah even more. Headscarfs please Allah so burqa should please him even more! So if I wear a burqa rather than a headscarf, I'll be his most favourite.

"all those skinny jean hijabis, who wear hijab for identity"

I didn't realise that's what they were doing. Do they know they look ridiculous? As in, totally missed the point of the hijab?

I don't know Lauren Booth is but at that FB status!

Having said that, what is wrong with changing in the girls' changing room? Are Muslim girls supposed to hide their bodies from other girls, too, now?

cote, the point is she wants to wear it. as you have pointed out there is no requirement for her to wear it so she can wear it and not wear it as she wants. as i have said she has no concept of her as a sexualised being so the concept of it being wrong to be infront of boys swimming without hijab and etc is not something that she considers. You said children shouldnt be sexualised, well she isnt.

As for what is the point, the point is identity. At ten she also wears skinny jeans with hijab.

This reduction to absurdity, how does it explain the thousands of women that dont engage in this? people like myself who are quite happy wearing coloured hijabs and abayahs, and dont feel the need or inclination to wear niqaab, people like waynetta? and we are not the exception?

awrah between women is between navel and the knees.
Lauren Booth is Tony Blairs sis in law who works for press tv

I'm not going to modify my dress because someone else may consider it a judgement on themselves.

If people worried about the feelings of others thro their sartorial choices, we'd all be wearing exactly the same colour, cut and material outfit.

Hijab is defintiely not a measure of piety amongst the circles I move in, my girls wear hijab because they are girls and the accessories appeal to them and they think its pretty and like spending ages on getting it perfectly wrapped.
I wear it for religious reasons and also frankly its easy.

Contraceptionwise, surely its totally personal, having loads of kids can take a toll on a persons health. It's up to the individual.

"This reduction to absurdity, how does it explain the thousands of women that dont engage in this?"

Why do you think it should? I'm pointing at the absurdity that some people find themselves in when they start going down the path of "Allah will like me more if I cover more than he asked". Like, "Quran says headscarf but I'll wear a burqa so I'll be his favourite".

And I said that because you gave "pleasing Allah" as a reason why a child would wear the hijab. Obviously not all Muslim parents think thus (thankfully) but some do and it is as absurd as wearing the burqa to please Allah even more than a hijab would.