Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

[MosEisley]

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

• there is no absolute proof of God's existence
• they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

"So just coincidence that leg legnthening is one of the classic faith healer scams then?"

When I see a limb regrow I'll believe it.

I saw Tim Minchin live a couple of times, he is my saviour

Leg lengthening 'miracles'

Sorry, not convinced, cottonmouth.

If you saw Derren Brown do the same thing, would you believe it? I have seen magicians do amazing things with my own eyes, but I still don't believe in magic.

Rational - I've only seen Tim Minchin live once, but he was brilliant.

"can anyone prove that God does not exist?"

Is one you see a lot in these kind of discussions. It's not a great trump card, really. As if we are assuming god exists as no-one can prove he doesn't - then you have to admit you can say the same of Thor, Odinn, Allah, Buddha, Isis, etc. By that logic - they are all real. And as most of them insist if they are real they are the ONLY one that is real - therefore how can any of them be real?

Lazy thinking.

You know, even if I have acted as Tooth Fairy for my own kids - does that mean I can prove that the real Tooth Fairy does not exist? Stoopid argument.

I do also think that the 'believe in anything' principle can be correct, if you're not careful. For example, I sometimes think that a current interest of mine in trying to make my life more sustainable has replaced religion for me. It includes rituals such as separating out recyclables or giving a vegetable sacrifice to the Composter, rules for living such as only shopping in charity shops or looking for Fairtrade labels, painful guilt if I don't keep these rules, and allows me to differentiate myself from those who don't r follow these rules. There are gurus and teachers, books of green wisdom, community support (I've been involved with a local low-carbon group for over a year - we even have confession sometimes where we reveal e.g. how often we are planning to fly this year), everything I could ask for. This is why I think religion does serve real human needs - because it often gets reproduced in secular pursuits.

Maybe Paul Daniels chopped off finger regrew, rather than being reattached by the doctors who used the benefits of evidence based science in order to operate on him.

I don't know anything about scam that you are latching onto, but I know what I have seen with my own eyes.

I'm sure there must be a fallacy named after the idea that a healing must be a scam because there are some scams around, and that God must be a scam on the same level as the tooth fairy.

It doesn't change the fact that we have a God who heals.

You can make things up to justify your disbelief until the cows come home, but nothing changes.

The worst thing about the healing bilge peddled by 'men of God' is that if you aren't healed you aren't a good enough Christian.

Erm and God healing isn't a fact, it's a belief.

Cottonmouth- there has never, ever been a case of a miracle healing that has stood up to any sort of rigorous investigation. Perhaps you saw the only one? But the trouble is, that if all the others hqve been proven to be fake, then the chances are yours was too. And without more evidence than 'I saw it with my own eyes" I'm afraid I can't believe yours either. Can you show us any more? Presumably there are records?

Maybe one of the emails sent to my bank account really was from an African prince who just needed access to British bank account details in order to get his fortune, and who really was willing to give me 10% of the proceeds.

If so, that real African prince should realise that 99.9% of those emails are scam emails issued by criminals, and that this reduces the impact of his attempts to get hold of those bank details.

If God really can intervene in the world, he should recognise that the sheer number of the scammers using leg length realignment as a trick, reduces the impact of his realignment of legs as a proof of his existence - and try something else, such as stopping a war, or curing all cases of AIDS overnight, or even just coming again to judge the quick and the dead.

Nd if we have anGod who heals, why doesn't he do it more often?

If you are going to call me a liar, there is no point on me being on this thread. Shame.

Not a liar, just massively deluded. Shame.

It's not about lying, I think you were deceived by people that actually think they are greater than any God you believe in.

I believe you saw what you saw, Cottonmouth.

"If you are going to call me a liar, there is no point on me being on this thread. Shame."

No one has called you a liar. Just questioned your claim. The fact that your claim cannot stand up to the questioning is quite telling. Perhaps you could direct us to a clip on youtube and we can see for ourselves?

I don't think you are a liar. I think you were tricked. And I hate the fact that you were tricked- and thwt there are hateful people in the world who deceive people like you for all sorts of reasons.

These evangelical churches can be extremely dangerous. One chain, who had churches all over the UK, were telling very ill people with HIV to stop trusting doctors and start putting their faith in god's healing, they held healing sessions, just like the one you describe. It came to light that people were actually dying, they were stopping their life saving medical treatments and dying as a result.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14406818

Were they just not doing it right Cottonmouth?

"I don't think you are a liar. I think you were tricked. And I hate the fact that you were tricked- and thwt there are hateful people in the world who deceive people like you for all sorts of reasons."

I think she allowed herself to be tricked though. It fitted with her needs.

It is indeed awful if people are being told that their lack of healing is their fault. A fallacy, and something I am deeply concerned about, although thankfully churches are seeming more enlightened and I see less of this now (have experienced it myself, sadly, suffering from a chronic disease.)

People get it wrong. But that doesn't mean God doesn't heal. He does, sometimes. I'm just back from a conference and have talked to people who have been, quite dramatically. You can say I am making it up. You can say they are making it up. All these things, I know you will be sceptical. Because I would be too. I can see it looks like so much bunkum, I really can. But I have seen it, I have experienced it personally, and other times I have not. But my faith remains because I experience a God who loves and is so captivating and so present.

I know you all think I'm a nutter. And happy to be thought of as such, I suppose. As long as it's a fairly fluffy nutter. But I couldn't come home from this amazing time I have had and not comment on this thread, because that would be wrong of me, I think.

I can't provide the proof you want. I can tell you stories, but I haven't got youtube links and doctors reports (although I am aware there are such in circulation - however, I would be worried about the authenticity of youtube videos of healing - as in the Derren Brown stuff etc.)

So I am well aware of the scams. Oh yes, and it makes me mad that people exercise this kind of power over others. It's not a God thing in any sense whatsoever. What is a God thing is the healing of a friend with a damaged spine. And somehow God is also in the non healing of me, not in the sense that God wills this but that God is in it with me. It's a mystery to which I both testify and remain convinced and blown away.

Rational, you see that kind of thing just makes me mad. That is a fringe group and they are downright dangerous. Since when should we not use medicine? As far as I am concerned science and the earth's resources are there for us to develop and use for good. Avoiding medicine is just a hateful means of control.

Can't you understand that if there were any truth in it whatsoever that it would be a world altering phenomenon and welcomed by all. The truth is there is no real evidence that faith healing works, there are almost always medical explanations for any so called cures, even if it's just explained as the placebo effect.

Madhairday- does it not bother you that the is not a single, solitary case of faith healing that has stood up the the slightest smidgin of scientific investigation? And that people have prayed and prayed andprayed for healing for a child and the child has died?

And what rational said. If healing was real why aren't we all shouting it from the rooftops? It would be wonderful and world changing if it was real!

This couple's faith killed their premature baby

www.christianpost.com/news/jury-convicts-oregon-faith-healers-for-letting-baby-die-57012/