Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

[MosEisley]

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

• there is no absolute proof of God's existence
• they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

Why should Religion dominate education? Not sure that I would say dominate, but you can thank the church for providing a very dominant proportion of schools 100+ years ago. Between the trustees of the public schools and the Church of England, our fairly recent ancestors received an education. We should be thankful for that.

Abortion? Does the church actually affect whether you can have an abortion or not? My understanding is that it provides information to guide its own adherents, not the general public. There may be some influence within the House of Lords but these Lords do represent people of faith who are every as worthy as any atheist. As a Christian, I do want my views represented in parliament.

Cottonmouth, you were the one who said there was proof (of god's existence) though you do just seem to be referring to human testimony, and I agree with crunchy, that is just personal experience and anecdote, rather than evidence.

I don't know any atheists who claim they can prove god's non-existence, but in the absence of any positive proof, the likelihood of the existence of any kind of supernatural power/deity/whatever is so infinitesimally small that it is not worth bothering with.

Should I believe in everything that someone, somewhere claims to have personal experience of, until I have seen actual proof that it doesn't exist? That would make for a very long list of aliens, ghosts, angels, witches, multiple variations on deities, fantastical creatures etc. I don't think I have time for all that, and don't feel my life is lacking anything by not believing in any of them.

If people of faith are going to expect special treatment, and if they want their faith to be taken into condsideration when policy is decided and laws made, and if I am expected to moderate my behaviour in order to accommodate them, then the least they can do is offer me proof of the existence of the god they believe in.

I do have photographic evidence, actually.

Photographic evidence of the existence of god? Now that would be interesting.

Unless of course it's the same calibre as the photographic evidence of the Loch Ness Monster, fairies at the bottom of the garden, aliens in area 51 etc.

It is amazing, edifying, uplifting, encouraging. You name it!

"I do have photographic evidence, actually."

Email it immediately to the scientists in Geneva, you will be famous!

Are you going to reveal it to us here?

Are you going to show us?

Oh, so is it just a picture of a beautiful sunset or another of nature's wonders?

Lol, probably exexpat.

Because god isn't in this picture, he only does nice sunsets and flowing rivers and rainbows etc etc etc.

t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvwbR8dHNQa-m8GqO1DsU_7rpbVDsLA2n6I7VvBTFDDyzMT-34

It's not that extraordinary withing Christian circles. I have photographic and video evidence of a particular total healing of a life-long chronic medical condition within hours of laying on of hands. This was not a skin condition clearing up, depression lifted or a bad back fixed but a leg growing by 4cm to match its partner. Overnight.

I have witnessed countless other incidents, but without my iPhone at the ready.

Bet it's a picture of a sunset with "We are an Easter people and Halleluja is our chorus" written across it.

Oh, right. That kind of 'proof'.

"It's not that extraordinary withing Christian circles. I have photographic and video evidence of a particular total healing of a life-long chronic medical condition within hours of laying on of hands. This was not a skin condition clearing up, depression lifted or a bad back fixed but a leg growing by 4cm to match its partner. Overnight."

You made chinese food come down my nose!

Have you had this 'miracle' verified by a specialist consultant in orthopeadics?

Still not a photo of your god revealing himself. In order to fit this criteria it must be a picture of god himself.

Cottonmouth- I'm really sorry, but that's a fake. James Randi described how it was done in a book called "Faith Healers". I worry about telling you, because you've obviously taken it on board, and i don't wqnt to upset you,but if you google it you'll see for yourself.

Yes, it was medically confirmed.

No, it's not fake. I was there. I have have known this family for 20 years, so nothing fly-by-night.

I really, really wish there was a clip of Tim Minchin singing 'Thank you God' available on YouTube that I could link to here. It is thanking God for the miracle of healing Sam's mum's cataracts, (Sam being someone who comes to talk to him after one of his concerts and explains that he has proof that god can work miracles) and it sums up exactly how I feel about claims of spiritual healing.

Can I recommend everyone goes and buys his CD to listen to it? The lyrics are here but it is much better when he sings it.

Sorry if this sounds trite, but we can discuss this until we all turn to dust or whatever, but nobody can PROVE there is a god,any more than anybody can PROVE there isn' t. Some people BELIEVE there is a god/creator/designer, others BELIEVE there isn t. I think it is arrogant for either side to state categorically that they are right ,and I, as a Christian, am the first to say that, although I believe, I do not KNOW. I just have a faith which - and some atheists will want to throw up here! - gives me happiness and peace and gives my life a meaning. I can t make myself NOT believe any more than an atheist can make him/herself believe. I just find it harder ( not to say depressing) to believe that life/the human brain/nature etc all started as a random accident and there is no higher meaning. And if it is all a load of gobbledegook (spelling?) then I 've had a fulfilling and happy life believing it !

I guess my heart is pretty hard. A school friend of mine had total remission of a diagnosed throat cancer after prayer. And I still don't believe in God. Because some cancers remit, and some don't, and whether there is prayer involved or not is IMO irrelevant - except that my school friend found her church community extremely supportive and essential to her at that time. That, I believe in.

To answer the initial OP, for two reasons

(1) I truly believe that religion was created as a method of 'crowd control' before we had government/police/laws etc - it was a moral code for people to live by, and those who disobeyed were sinners, much as we now have a set of laws and those who disobey are criminals.

(2) Because I have never been given a difinitive answer to the questions I have regarding certain aspects of Christianity - Adam and Eve were created and had sons. How did that then evolve into more humans? ALSO....I understand why God, should he have existed, have put the Tree of Temptation in the garden, to test his creations, but why a talking snake? Surely one or the other? And why was the snake's punishment to 'crawl on your belly all your days'...erm, it's a snake? ALSO how can we think so highly of a creator who allows henious acts to happen on his planet? Life and death, yes, but murder, rape, paedophillia...if God created everything, he created the ability in some humans to carry out these acts. I have yet to be given an answer to the above that isn't "God acts in mysterious ways".

I also think that in my experience, atheists and agnostics tend to be a lot more acommodating and open-minded than those following a religion. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but ime, this tends to be the norm.

So just coincidence that leg legnthening is one of the classic faith healer scams then?

It's when theists come out with very firm statements of 'fact' that I feel compelled to question. I know it's akin to pissing in the wind but you never know.

e.g.
If someone states that god 'reveals' himself to people, I want evidence of that, otherwise it's an empty statement.

Cottonmouth, the onus is generally on the claim maker to provide evidence. So if I claim to see fairies in my garden it is up to me to provide proof, not for you to provide evidence to the contrary.

Leg lengthening is a classic scam and has been debunked by randi and others, if you do have definitive proof of it then you could be in line for the million dollar randi prize.

Happy spending