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Original poster

Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

999 replies

MosEisley · 15/01/2012 22:49

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

  • there is no absolute proof of God's existence
  • they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

OP posts:
honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:11

Aries, there is no such thing as salvation by works. You can't work your way into heaven.

Salvation is, by grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Works, however, are evidence of faith. Faith without works is a dead faith.

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:17

Therein lies the problem for me. Because you can be the kindest, most helpful, loving, giving person, who is charitable and an all round lovely human being, but still be damned if you are not in "grace"?

Again I'm not trying to be disrespectful, or pour scorn.

noeyedear · 18/01/2012 20:19

When my son was born, he was in hospital for two weeks in the SCBU. He was the healthiest baby in there. There were babies in there who would not have come home. He had to have needles poked into him daily. His screaming could be heard all the way down the corridor. That is when my wavering belief in God finally dissipated. I always hated the idea that bad things were "God's Will" Why? To test us? Would a benevolent God put children through such pain to test a parents' faith in him? If he exists, he's a terrible entity. I don't want to worship him. Also, my nephew aged 4 asked his religious grandma why he couldn't see his grandpa anymore. The answer if you believe in God is that God took him because He thought it was better for a fairly young man to be in heaven, sitting with God instead of enriching the life of his grandchildren. God makes no sense. The only way these things make sense is through the non existence of God. Bad things happen just because they do. It's part of life.

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:22

You are not expected to understand. See the closing verses of the Parable of the Sower.

There is no concept of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" in Christianity. Jesus has already paid the ultimate price. Any good we do for others is because of what he has already done for us. We love because he loved us first.

Rational · 18/01/2012 20:25

honisoit

You're just preaching, it's really tiresome Angry

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:26

So if Jesus hadn't died on the cross, then humankind would be incapable of any goodness and kindness?

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:26

Why are bad things automatically God's Will? I don't believe this and I don't think this is a mainstream Christian view.

I think God feels our pain as much as we do.

We live in a fallen world. God does not always protect us from the fall out of this. We would not have free will if that were the case, and so not be unconditionally loved.

We can't always control what happens to us but we can control how we react.

Rational · 18/01/2012 20:27

noeyedear

I'm lucky I never had to go through the confusion of losing faith. Life is so much clearer without I reckon Wink

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:27

No more tiresome than most of the posts on this thread. But thanks for the reassurance anyway :)

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:29

Do you think that people asking questions about your faith are tiresome then?

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:29

Ariel, if Jesus hadn't died in the cross, we would not be able to have a right relationship with God.

Are you alluding to the doctrine of utter depravity, perhaps?

Rational · 18/01/2012 20:29

Just talk, don't preach Wink

yellowraincoat · 18/01/2012 20:30

honisoit, don't you realise how arrogant you are being by presuming you understand how you get to heaven? You are so convinced faith will bring you there - but actually you have no idea. Maybe you've totally got the wrong end of the stick. You can't possibly know. You can hope, you can have faith, but to preach to us that you know and we don't is just so teeth-grittingly arrogant.

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:30

No I am not. I don't know what that is. Perhaps you could explain?

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:34

I am happy to dabble in apologetics every now and then.

I was the one that was accused of being tiresome.

I actually don't mind that. I entered this debate to turn on the head the notion that atheists have some kind of superior understanding of life and the arrogant assumption that they are in control. It really couldn't be further from the truth!

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:35

Utter depravity?

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:37

I am not sure what your definition of preaching is.

I am sorry that I am making you feel uncomfortable.

I don't know who will go to heaven and who won't. I know what it says in the bible about this, so am fairly confident for some and continue to pray for the others.

yellowraincoat · 18/01/2012 20:37

So you are saying, honsoit, that YOU have a superior understanding?

Wow. Just wow.

yellowraincoat · 18/01/2012 20:38

The bible is so desperately unclear on this. Thus all the different sects of Christianity fighting. So how can you possibly say you know what it says in the bible?

Why are you Christian and not Muslim or Jewish? Do you truly believe that those faiths are wrong and yours is right?

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:40

You have a friend in Jesus Google, Ariel.

I don't personally ascribe to this doctrine, however. Your Irish link might mention it, iirc from when I discovered that site a year or so ago.

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:40

So I still have no explanation as to why Jesus dying a painful, violent death on a cross was so essential to mankind and why it was so preferable to him living to a decent age spreading his message of love, forgiveness and peace.

Rational · 18/01/2012 20:40

"I entered this debate to turn on the head the notion that atheists have some kind of superior understanding of life and the arrogant assumption that they are in control. It really couldn't be further from the truth!"

Never heard that one before (Sarcasm), the christian and her inferiority complex tries to turn the tables. We all know that atheism is connected with intelligence, that doesn't mean I think you're stupid thoough Wink

You were really quite rude there, not very christian at all actually, tut tut. We're having a civilised debate here.

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 20:41

X posts.

I'd rather see a Christian explaining it upon being asked.

honisoit · 18/01/2012 20:41

Did I say that, yellow? I don't think so. I am not sure what I am being accused of. Oh dear, no one said the Christian life was an easy one.

PigletJohn · 18/01/2012 20:42

honisoit Aries, there is no such thing as salvation by works. You can't work your way into heaven

Do you have any evidence to make you think that?