Vicar not pulling weight

[feelingabitfedup]

As per name change I'm feeling a bit fed up as our new-ish vicar does not seem to be pulling their weight. They are a lovely person etc and I do like them but I'm sick of them trying to get everyone else to do their job. I know that everyone in a Church needs to work together as a team but surely the vicar should be leading us and encouraging us and doing something rather than palming off all their jobs on other unpaid people, most of whom are already working full or part time. There does not seem to be much flexibility in their life, and it feels like they are doing a job with rigid hours 8.30am to 5pm and time taken off that if they have to do an evening meeting and they have a fixed day off that cannot be changed unless it coincides with major festival (Christmas, Easter etc). Am I being unreasonable? Seems mean to be moaning about a vicar, perhaps I should just be grateful we have one unlike many parishes.

Burn out in clergy is high in the 40 plus age group.
It is possible they are being careful to avoid this

My dh is a vicar and takes Saturday as his day off when possible. He has 4 this half term due to other things :(

He has to be very careful to preplan his time to get a day off, to have time off one evening a week and an hour at some point in the day when he has evening meetings

He has 4 churches and a diocesan role to fit it (all normal these days) and in the future more will be added. He has to delegate now as if hs doesn't he will be more stressed and be worse of when more is added.

It is possible your vicar is not doing enough - it can happen, but more likely they do more behind the scenes which you don't see

When I was a vicar I found certain things very emotionally draining, the politics and meetings more than the pastoral care. Each person is different and finds a different way of coping.

It is important a vicar has a hobby or volunteers somewhere else. This may mean being careful about days and time off

The way churches are run is changing everywhere, more is being done by the people on the ground as the leaders cover a bigger patch or number of people.

Hope this helps shed some light :)

Thanks eaglewings - your dh sounds a star to me

it's not Nick is it?

(our crappy vicar was the same - he had his set hours and nothing was allowed to change it)

there is a chance that as eagle says, they're doing lots of stuff but you can't tell, and besides which, there's probably more stuff to do than they have time for.
Maybe you should have a word about a parish administrator?

thanks nickelbabe, no it's not Nick, but has he gone now? Hope your new one is better.

sounds like a winge but the parish admin is no better! even the poor Church wardens are fed up with it (especially as they don't get paid to do the vicar's job and are busy enough already, however they did getpressgangedintoit volunteer). I'm keeping my head down and hoping vicar will look around for another (less stressful!) job soon.

however the vicar is a lovely, lovely person, really nice, just not the right parish priest for our Church. such a shame

yeah, he went ages ago - we're stuck in limbo at the moment (waiting for a Team Ministry to be installed)

It sounds like a much bigger problem, then.
It might be worth raising it at the PCC. (which I know is very hard if the people involved attend, but at least then you're not risking going behind their backs)

prayers are with you xx

BTW I should probably have added that apart from the parish administrator (paid), the vicar has a secretary (not paid), 2 Church wardens, big PCC split into committees (which is normal I think), musical director (paid), various other volunteers with specific jobs and only 1 Church to look after (which is reasonably big, although I don't really know how big other congregations are and I'm sure they vary).

thanks nickelbabe - interregnums are tough, really stressful but we found we worked very well together during it, better than we had before!!

I hear team ministries are difficult to manage well but seems to be the way the Church is going, to save money and cope with the reduction of people wanting to be priests.

There is no way I'm taking this to the PCC, it would upset too many people having it out in the open, including the vicar, it might cause too many earthquakes and I love my Church and the people in it too much.

I shall keep praying though - prayers always work!! Thanks xx

I'm of the size of the staff in your church then!
(although, obviously, not the problems you're having)

yy! we are all working together so much better without a "boss" - it's much more like a team. But I suppose, part ofthat is that we can choose our own way, a way that we know fits our church, rather than having to do as we're told by someone who doesn't know it at all.

(i wonder if you could do an anonymous letter, then? Praying certainly does help. )

perhaps it's because of the size of the staff that the vicar thinks they are on an easy wicket ?!

It's so hard to "chose" a new vicar - if you get a choice that is ... we didn't there was only 1 applicant - I blame the diocese!!! (not really)

LOL at the anonymous letter idea! I could shifty up to the vicarage door in the dead of night and pop a letter made out of newspaper cuttings through the door saying "pULl YOur weIGht" or something!!

Feeling I totally understand your frustration. I am a church administrator. I am paid, but for far less hours than i do and at minimum wage on those few paid hours. Our minister is on a whacking wage (our churches fault for agreeing to pay it) and I am getting more and more frustrated by his lack lustre attitude to work. At least 2 or 3 times a week he phones to cancel appointments (which I have to then phone the person to explain) or just takes days off "sick". He honestly has not had a full week in work in the 18 months we have had him.

I am now not making excuses, or trying to put it politely if anyone asks where he is....I say he has phoned in sick again!!

One example of another annoying thing: We rent out our halls. Often this is on a Saturday and I will arrange my day around the timings of letting people in and locking up afterwards. No problem. I dont mind. ONE Saturday I had to ask him to do it as I was taking DD2 away for her to start her gap year. He agreed to do it, but then said he would take Friday off instead!! I realise that it was his day off, but for goodness sake, Saturday is my day off, too and I would never even think to take 5 minutes off in lieu of unlocking a door.

ooooh that feels better to have a little moan!!!

After 18 months here some people are seeing what he is like. I am trying to encourage an accountability relationship to develop so that he can be challenged about his time actually working.

Eaglewings - I dont want you to think I dont appreciate what hard work it is, I do. I have worked for other ministers who have always been brilliant and hard working and I am aware of the "behind the scene" work that goes on unseen.

Positive - for a moment I thought we were in the same parish!! but our vicar has a secretary as well as parish administrator and we also have a brilliant person just to look after the hall - nickelbabe is right, we do seem to have an excellent team, sort of makes a mockery of our vicar banging on about being on an "enabling mission". At least I know we'll be able to cope if the vicar ever decides to leave wishes to seek other opportunities elsewhere, although I suspect not, they've got it cushy!!

I really feel for you Positive, I hope you are appreciated where you are, and if not you would be very welcome here!!

BTW what is an "accountability relationship"? perhaps we could investigate that one ....

yes, investigate an accountability relationship.

Soem people really do take the piss, don't they!
And they're supposed to be in a Christian job! What happened to Christian Attitude to life and work?

Feeling, when I read your OP I was first convinced that my friend had written it on my behalf!! Very very similar!

I work for another Christian Charity and we have accountability relationships. We have regular meetings between colleagues and discuss how things are going, what we are struggling with, how we are doing with our walk with God and deep things like that. It is a really good opportunity for some honest talks and for any thorny issues to be broached in a loving and understanding way. I value this immensely. I think my minister should have someone with that type of relationship where he can be challenged to think about his work ethic (or lack of!!)
I wrote my first post from work. Minister had phoned to say that he would be in late today because he had been at a meeting last evening (so was I, same meeting, doing teas and coffees and cakes that I had cooked between work and meeting) Minister was not involved in leading the meeting in any way! ANyway he arrived at 11.35 today in the office. At 11.45 he came and said he was going out for lunch to the cafe down the road!!! Not bad - 10 mins work for a morning!

Can I just say my dh (a pioneer minister) works incredibly hard, sometimes silly hours, always honours appts and never never takes time of sick even if at deaths door (which I get cross about) BUT we are incredibly protective about our day off, and we have to be, because otherwise things creep in and people do take advantage unfortunately, however I can't see him quibbling about opening church on his day off and he has been known to swap for funerals etc. Just to show that to some it might seem quite anal but these things need protecting if we want to be serious about protecting family life/time off :)

Madhairday - I think most ministers are great like your dh which is why it came as such a surprise to us as a congregation that this vicar is not. All the other ministers and vicars I've ever met have been hard working, caring, reliable, flexible and over generous with their time.

Strangely it actually makes me feel better that Positive is having a similar problem. It is a good job we don't know where each other live! We have had the situation when a funeral for a valued member of the congregation has had to be either moved or another vicar found to take it, because it clashed with the vicar's day off. I think days off are vital and I think you are quite right to protect it, but I'm relieved your dh can be flexible occasionally. I didn't mean to offend you or any other minister.

Positive - I guess we just carry and on and keep praying as always - good luck with the accountability relationship and I shall research it - thank you! xx

No worries, I just get protective of dh and so other ministers by default I'm well aware there are those who won't pull their weight and it must be incredibly frustrating to have to work with them Keep on at it, maybe he'll catch the work ethic in the end from those around him

MHD I KNOW there are fantastic ministers and your husband is one and I have worked for many other fantastically, hard working, sacrificial ministers and yes, I totally agree about the day off. Our old minister had Saturday off. Other than immoveable events or things happening he kept to that. If he needed to do anything on a SAturday we would persuade him to take time off on an alternative day. It was never a problem. My instance that I spoke about of him unlocking on a SAturday, to me, just showed me how much I was taken for granted when I do it every other time. It would NEVER occur to him to say to me "take an hour off to make up for coming to the church 4 times on SAturday".
feeling - no I definitely do not feel appreciated. But I wont have to put up with it long, we are leaving the country next summer.

I take comfort from the fact that God knows what the minister does/doesn't do and I will leave it to Him to sort it.

:) PA - probably the best way to think about it. It's a shame you are underappreciated - you do a fabulous job :)

I was about to put it makes more sense for them to have saturdays off, then i thought that most weddigns are on saturdays.

Of course there's never an ideal day, and that's why they should be flexible aboutit " i will have suchday as my day off, but if I can't have suchday, I will have otherday instead"

We have friday nickel, thought about saturday but as you said there was weddings and also dh thought he would never be relaxed enough as he'd invariably be starting finishing his sermon for the sunday. Fridays work for us as most of our clergy friends have fridays too so we can all get together a lot which is great for support etc.

In my experience, days off get totally busted up whenever they are, and taking "another day" is simply not feasible unless you book it in weeks in advance. All the vicars I have known have been extremely flexible about their days off and duties and most of them go for weeks without a proper day off at all. Saturdays are unrealistic and any other day of the week - especially Fridays - are destined to be days that undertakers/families are keen to get funerals on - clearly some vicars do transfer funerals to another day away from their day off but very often it is very inconvenient to the family and visiting relatives and so a lot of vicars don't, and sacrifice their day off. Also Fridays are when most church social evenings would happen and vicars tend to get drawn into that whole "set up the tables, help with the preparations" stuff, as well as needing to attend the function and being the one to lock up afterwards. Even the most lovely people will still phone up and say "I know it's your day off but ...."

When a vicar's life is tied inextricably to living, breathing, working in a parish, then having to do anything at all on a "day off" would make it feel like a work-day. It would tie them to the parish when actually they need to feel totally at ease. For some people, I imagine locking and unlocking-up will ruin their day off because they cannot escape the job.

of course, our crappy vicar had fridays, which meant that he would spend a heck of a lot of time moaning that the choir never spoke to him, or that he didn't know what we did, what we stood for etc.
(previous encumbants would often come to practice to talk about Important Stuff), but he wouldn't ever come to practice to talk to us, or ask us questions etc.
(i might need to clarify that practice is on fridays)

Dandy - fair points.
I would advise any vicar to make sure that all the local funeral directors know that their day off is Friday, then they would have to make sure that church funerals couldn't be done on that day.
Most of our funerals are Monday or Wednesday, anyway.

We are about to have our first Saturday as my husbands day off in over a month! We do try and have Saturday as both kids are at school and he wants to spend time with them
The question is then what will be important enough to make him change his day off
The last few weeks it has been
Prayer training day (no question it was brilliant)
Harvest supper
Training day for future ministers
A wedding

We have the majority of funerals on a Friday so that would be just as bad as a day off. Each other day of the week has a regular event such as Alpha, home group, toddler group, school assembly, and his 4 parishes all have PPC meetings on a Monday every 6 weeks or so etc etc

Thankfully the wonderful church warden unlocks and locks the church on a Saturday, small gestures like this make such a difference to a day off. positive attitude, although you are verybgood to unlock the hall, you should really get another volunteer to take this on, you need a complete day of rest!