Vicar not pulling weight

[feelingabitfedup]

As per name change I'm feeling a bit fed up as our new-ish vicar does not seem to be pulling their weight. They are a lovely person etc and I do like them but I'm sick of them trying to get everyone else to do their job. I know that everyone in a Church needs to work together as a team but surely the vicar should be leading us and encouraging us and doing something rather than palming off all their jobs on other unpaid people, most of whom are already working full or part time. There does not seem to be much flexibility in their life, and it feels like they are doing a job with rigid hours 8.30am to 5pm and time taken off that if they have to do an evening meeting and they have a fixed day off that cannot be changed unless it coincides with major festival (Christmas, Easter etc). Am I being unreasonable? Seems mean to be moaning about a vicar, perhaps I should just be grateful we have one unlike many parishes.

In the winter, we don't have anything going on on a Saturday, really
hopefully when we get a vicar, we will do.

We are lucky to have a Verger, too, who will unlock the church whenever it's needed, and make sure that the people using it have everything they need.

We had great CWs in our last church too who would unlock etc, they were fab.

Now we don't have a church to unlock freedom!! Also dh doesn't have funerals as a pioneer minister as yet so don't have to think about that but he just used to tell the funeral directors his day off was a friday and they would know not to ring then to organise it. It works well for us.

Sounds like there are a lot of great people out there doing great things and I suppose I ought to feel better that we are not the only Church with a vicar not pulling their weight

Thank you everyone for your contributions God Bless xx

Seriously, a vicar only gets one day off a week?
And people are still complaining about hours worked?

I only get one day off a week, and I'm not a vicar.

iggi I would not complain about anything if our vicar had one day off a week and worked six days. I would say ours works the equivalent hours to 2 days a week and maybe 2 evening meetings a week. We have said all along that we KNOW that loads work tirelessly and sacrificially because we have worked with them before. Which is why it is so obvious when a "new" person is not pulling his weight as he should, not just compared to all the good ones out there.

I really just didn't think there were any jobs these days that had 6 days as their "core" hours (obviously some people do overtime and some people running their own business might work 6 days). Why would we want a vicar to work such long hours, as they are entitled to a partner/family in CofE, surely they need time for those duties too? (I get some will always be lazy, it's the not having a weekend-equivalent that is freaking me out!)

A lot of jobs these days have core hours that mean there isn't a "weekend" - eg if yo uwork in the service industry.

I would wager that most vicars would have say, 37 hours scheduled, so that they dare doing the equivalent of 5 days' work, but they work those days over a 6 day period.

Ah well that doesn't sound so bad. The op talked about working 8.30 to 5, 6 days a week - I thought that sounded too much.

Where do you get your "37 hrs" figure from, nickelbabe? And how on earth do you know this is the case for most vicars?

I do know that there are vicars who start work with unlocking the chuch and the morning office at 7am and if they have an evening meeting, will finish work at 9.30pm, and that can be six days a week, plus a day-off that can easily be eaten into. After a full day's work my OH only got in at 11.30pm the other night because of an event held in the church and they were required to held pack away and lock up after. I am noticing there are increasing numbers of clergy that I have heard of locally with work-related stress and exhaustion and burn-out. Our local dioceses had a clergy day on this very topic this year.

Yep, only having a "weekend" four times a year is hard work.

There are vicars who do "less" than others, yes, but it's a hard thing to pin down. Vicars are meant to do some theological reading every week ("meant" as in they are asked about it when they have their professional review) but I bet few have time to do it but it is still required work. Admin takes a huge amount of time.

I got my 37 hours fifure from a standard working week - nothing to do with the clergy on this.
And obviously, I can't know that this is the case; i was just making a bet.
It also depends on the set-up of the churches. If a church has a verger and an administrator, then that's two jobs the vicar doesn't have to do.
Administrators cost money, but vergers in a lot of parish churches are unpaid.
But obviously, if the church doesn't have those, then more will fall on the shoulder of the vicar.
It shouldn't have to, and I'm sure that most parishes can get churchwardens and other volunteers to do "housework" tasks. It's a shame when you get a church/parish/benefice that doesn't have this infrastructure.

Our benefice has this infrastructure because we've had quite a few interregna in recent years, and are in one now. Most of the pastoral work is covered by retired clergy, and everything else is covered by our own "staff". The churchwardens run most things, as is the case in interregna anyway, we have a part-time administrator, and a verger. We also have an army of "volunteers" which consists of sidespeople, musicians, helpers from youth groups, the PCC, etc etc, to cover everything else that happens.

Of course I'm not saying that "all vicars do 37 hours a week and that's it" What I'm saying is that it is possible for that to happen, and that in an ideal world that is what would happen, provided that the other posts in the parish/benefice are used to their full advantage.
I can't see any reason why a vicar should have to open up and close the church for events unless they were there to take the service- it just shouldn't be part of their job description; that's the verger's job.

plus, the OP also said "BTW I should probably have added that apart from the parish administrator (paid), the vicar has a secretary (not paid), 2 Church wardens, big PCC split into committees (which is normal I think), musical director (paid), various other volunteers with specific jobs and only 1 Church to look after (which is reasonably big, although I don't really know how big other congregations are and I'm sure they vary)."

which means that most of the parish's non-pastoral work is already in hand.

Yes, the OP's situation does seem to indicate that the vicar has more support than the average vicar - a parish administrator and a secretary being the things that most parishes wouldn't have, I reckon. All churches have churchwardens but not all as active as others. In some churches there simply aren't the people to do these things (or who have the capacity - are computer-literate, time-rich, energy-rich). In one parish we worked in, we were basically the only family with a car - so things like disposing of harvest produce, taking jumble sale remainders to the scrap man, buying a new church lawnmower, collecting staging blocks for an event etc would have to be done by us.

A vicar doesn't have a job description as such, which is why many jobs fall to them, especially when others would have to do them voluntarily.

As regards a verger, not all churches have full-time vergers. A verger will assist with the practicalities of services - especially at funerals and weddings (getting things out, tidying up, greeting at the door) but if someone holds a concert in a church, who is responsible for a) attending in order to show the church's support (esp, if the church is receiving some fundraising from the event) and perhaps welcoming people to the building etc b) helping everything to be packed away securely and the church secured for the night? This is not necessarily the verger's "job" either. In many churches the vicar is the last one to leave the building.

It's a while since our vicar left -I have found that we work together better when we're on our own!
Our verger is a retired man, and he basically opens and closes the church whenever it's needed - unless he's told otherwise.
A lot of the "staff" have keys (all doled out by the Churchwarden), so depending on whose event it is, it's a different person opening.
Like, if it's a concert that the organists have organised, they will open and close the church, (we also have someone who generally looks after events too, so likely if it's an evening one, he'll do it), if it's organised by a third-party jut using the church, it will be the verger, if it's a daytime one, then it might fall on the churchwarden.
I suppose we're lucky to have a team of people who are willing to help when necessary.

I also have a set of keys in the shop (cos I'm just up from the church), and if someone needs the key during the day, they'll fetch it from me and sign for it. (obviously, someone sanctioned by the church, not just anyone!)

It's a shame when you get a parish that has no volunteers. (and obviously, we have the worry that any new vicar we have will take away all our responsibilities, so hopefully, we will get someone who understands the way ourteam works at the moment and keep it running smoothly like that)

I can't remember when we had a vicar that was the last to leave the building! In our church, it's always been the churchwardens or the organists!

I don't know any vicars who do a 37 hour week, but I can name a lot who'd LOVE a 37 hour week. I know of several who are at risk of burnout, or have indeed burnt out. I know some "self supporting" (ie not paid) priests who are working 37+ hours a week in their ministry!

I wonder how much of it is that people are so used to vicars doing everything that they make them carry on like that.

We were lucky to have a lazy priest, and we got used to carrying most of the "burden" - now that we have to do all the stuff, we like it much better.
But then you have to rely on the fact that you'll have lots of people who care enough to take on the responsiblities.

I've come to this thread late I know but am at the possibility that some clergy have a 37 hour working week. It wasn't true for my Dad, I estimate DH already exceeds that, and when he is an incumbent I expect his hours to go up again (he is a curate at present).
I say this with no complaint. It is the life to which God called and he responded. Also Day Off is rigidly adhered too as is holiday allowance.
There have been many examples of clergy burn out because of the intense pressure that they themselves and their congregations put them under. Sad indeed.

it appears that the "possibility" might only be a theoretical one, though shiv.
:(

Reading some of these posts, it seems that my vicar has quite a cushy life! He doesn't do anything that other people can do - no setting up chairs, locking up or anything like that.

His job is to equip, spiritually and practically, the rest of us to do what needs to be done.

We have four clergy, and they all have different days off, so we aren't particularly restricted about when weddings and funerals happen. If it is for a church family member, they will attend on their days off anyway - just like the rest of us.

In addition to clergy, we have other paid workers - children's and families', student minister, and a couple of administrators. We also have loads of lay people running key ministries, eg music development, and youth work.

A vicar can't possibly run a mission-shaped church all on his own. He needs other people to be making decisions, coming up with ideas, and doing the practical stuff.

MindtheGappp, please please move to our village, you have a great view of what the church is there for!
Much of what we are discussing depends on the size of the congregation(s)
My dh is enjoying his holiday at the moment and it's wonderful to see him relaxed.

MindtheGappp - FOUR clergy! cough splutter! are you in a cathedral??!!

I have found it very humbling reading through these posts about the massive amount of dedication, long hours and hard work of so many clergy. However it has only highlighted how little our own vicar is doing and what little involvement they have with the congregation and community, especially when compared to other vicars and indeed the predecessors. I think others are also "feeling a little fed up" because we are having some important people within the congregation either leaving or stepping down from some of their "jobs". I'm sure it can't be a coincidence.

I know it shouldn't make any difference but I would point out that our vicar is a lady, who has a husband with a full time demanding job (but no children at home). I know that she is responsible for all the domestic chores within the rectory and has no help, so life can not be easy for her. Perhaps that is why the congregation is bearing the brunt.

it shouldn't make any differerence whether she is a man or a woman.
It's her own fault for tkaing so much household work when she's got a full-time job herself!
or does her husband think that her job isn't a real job?

Surely if they've got two incomes, they can afford a cleaner?

We are in a fairly ordinary parish church (approx 400 on the ER). We have a vicar, curate, youth pastor and NSM.

You are so fortunate. Unfortunately we just have a vicar and a couple of readers who work full time.