To wonder why, when Islam is such a peaceful religion, is there so much oppression of women in the Middle East?

[Joogle]

I know this may be ignorant but I would like to lear more about it. It seems there is so much oppression of women in Middle Eastern and African Muslim countries from women not being allowed out in public uncovered and domestic violence through to FGM and stoning.

Is this more to do with culture than religion?

onagar - Do you advocate FGM? Do you think that it has anything to do with Islam or the Koran? Please enlighten us...

Have to ask what is FGM

Female genital mutilation

It's culture not religion. The Koran has given women lots of rights- ie it has always been allowed for either party to divorce, women have always been allowed to own property etc. Iyswim

Bottom line is that women have been oppressed pretty much universally because we're 'the weaker sex'. And most cultures have some kind of presiding religion, usually run by men for men, the rules of which are tweaked over the centuries to make sure men stay firmly in power and women stay in their place. Some of the more progressive cultures have embraced female emancipation and/or toned down the religious excuses... the rest haven't. The Catholic priest scandal illustrated how 'peaceful religion' and 'rank hypocrisy' can very easily go hand in hand when the pious have absolute power. No different anywhere else or in any other religion.

Leilaloony, If it were simply up to me I'd have anyone who even advocated FGM thrown in prison. Along with those who circumcise helpless children. Most people won't think that is as bad, but to my mind any child abuse is too much.

I advocate discarding all religion and having people work out their own moral position. There's that saying isn't there. "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but only religion can get good people doing bad things".

CogitoErgoSometimes - buddhists and quakers, from what I recall, are very open minded

onagar - I agree

Bump, anyone?

Onagar my family is from the Middle East and they don't practice Islam in the way you are referring to either.

How many people from the Middle East do you actually know?

I would like to konw too (the original question in the op).

Other religions were shitty to women, but on the whole have moved on to being fairer as time has gone on.... Why still so much hate/fear (for women) in Islam?

charlene I could say the same for Christianity.

I follow no religion BTW. Half my family are Christian and the other Muslim.

You can find serious wrongs in all religions if you wanted to, I think the recent findings that the Vatican completely ignored all the child fiddling (as if we didn't know) in Ireland is evident of this.

We may hear of serious opression of women in Islam, but there are also a lot of Islamic countries where women are treated pretty much the same way they are in the UK.

We may also hear of constant cases of child abuse by priests in the Christian faith, doesn't make it representative of all Christians does it.

hamster I think you will find your answer by looking at the age of all the main religions. You say "other religions have moved onto being fairer as time as gone on" - how do you define "time"? Judaism is over 5000 years old, Christianity is over 2000 years old. Compared to these Islam is a baby religion of a mere 1432 years old. Islam is still growing as a religion and has a long way to go to get to the point where Christianity is at now.

However, I don't understand where you have got this "hate/fear in Islam for women" thing from. I think cultures interpret religions in their own ways. Like cultures in Africa adopting the FGM, which is completely unheard of in the Middle East of Asian Sub-continent. Cultures essentially adopt bits and pieces of other religions that they are influenced by and mix them up into their own beliefs. It is like Islam in Pakistan, you will find many Hindu rituals that take place at certain holy shrines, but they are Muslims doing them.

There is a very good documentary on BBC 2 every Monday at the moment about the life of Muhammad - I think it has portrayed Islam beautifully, and how it is viewed by it's followers. In the first part they spoke about how Muhammad had married an older widowed business woman who ran her own business successfully on her own. If Islam taught the oppression of women, then why would the person who founded the religion let his wife work and make her own money in that day and age?

"We may hear of serious opression of women in Islam, but there are also a lot of Islamic countries where women are treated pretty much the same way they are in the UK."
Which Islamic countries are these LDNmummy?

mainly culture. i personal do not beleive any religion that gives you a set of rules to live by and fear the consequences if you do not is peaceful, that is not an anti islamic view its how i feel about organised religion

the koran has been interpreted to suit the culture, most of these cultures very much oppress women, saying that islam has not evolved the way christianity has, most muslim countries the laws are very much based on the koran this liberated women in the 7th century but it does not liberate women now, and what we view as liberation is different to what a woman in say egypt might but we have the freedom to make our choices many muslim women do not

there is also the issue of many muslims not wanting to face up to the oppression of women in there society and will pass it off as not being islamic but when you have a problem such as FGM being performed on the vast majority of women in the many muslim countries and 98% of women who have suffered this are muslim then it does become a muslim problem

Because Allah said so via his prophet:The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176).

Qur'an (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Qur'an (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye.

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).

Qur'an (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.

Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.

Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing that a woman brings to a marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"

Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peacebeupon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon'.

you can not jsut pick bits out of the koran to represent the whole religion

read the bible there are some horrifying versus in there too, where did you get this from the bnp website by chance?

somethingwitty funny how the disciples didn't believe Mary Magdelene that Jesus had risen because she was a women.

Oh and Noah commits incest with his daughter.

Its very easy to take a few lines from any holy text and extrapolate.

Thanks for this thread OP. You could have posted this in religion section and had a lot of answers from Muslim women. Instead you've chosen AIBU, home of the cutting and pasting gobshites. Thanks.

Something witty's post is copied and pasted from an anti Islam website which compares Islam to a cancer. How's that for unbiased sources?

http://quran.com/ koran

Read for yourself

you can not just pick bits out of the koran to represent the whole religion

Not saying this is representative of the religion, just the unalterable word of God as noted in the key literature

*funny how the disciples didn't believe Mary Magdelene that Jesus had risen because she was a women.

Oh and Noah commits incest with his daughter.*

Price of fish? Im not a Christian.

Islam is not a peaceful religion or at all tolerant, it has hundreds of references to how unbelievers and christians and jews are vile, will burn in hell, muslims cannot associate with, must pay a tax to muslims, must be beheaded.

People repeatedly ask about 'the religion of peace' the way some muslims behave. Not a peaceful religion, just good PR and an establishment of cultural marxists

somethingwitty - It's a load of mistranslations taken out of context. You also appear not to know the difference between Quran and hadith either.

Also, that Norwegian terrorist talked of 'cultural Marxist' being to blame too, so you are starting to give me the creeps.

I'm an atheist so defending Islam by saying Christians abuse children is no defence. I could spend all day telling you what is wrong with Christianity. The bible condones the murder and abuse of children,

But notice what the general defence is. 'Islam does no wrong. If it does wrong it is not Islam.'

That's what the Catholics said when we told them they had to stop abusing children.

But we should stop discussing this now cos LDNmummy has family in the middle east so she has the final word on Islam.