Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

jumping through hoops to get a child christened?

65 replies

mommie · 13/10/2005 14:50

i mentioned to my local vicar that i wanted our one yr old christened. he sent me a pack of stuff saying i should be a regular church attender, and i have been for the last 3 months. then we were invited to 'baptism classes' and i went last week. he said some parents should go on the alpha course, others would be better with a thanksgiving service rather than a baptism etc and could he see parents (there were 3 of us) individually to establish our faith. he wouldn't put any dates in the diary re christenings. Is this normal?

OP posts:
tissy · 13/10/2005 14:53

Yes, I would say it is normal, though approaches differ between vicars. A baptism is a formalised welcoming of a child into the Christian faith, and I think it is reasonable for the Vicar to establish that the parents have some commitment.

bakedpotatooooowoooh · 13/10/2005 15:31

Seems a bit OTT to me.
Is he saying that only Apha-goers will be entitled to a baptism, as opposed to a thanksgiving? That seems a bit off.

Lonelymum · 13/10/2005 15:37

I think it is OTT too. He should welcome the opportunity to welcome another child into the family of the church and shouldn't make judgements as to the faith of the parents. So what if he never sees you again? He is supposed to be welcoming the baby and bestowing God's blessing on him/her not judging you.

jessicaandbumpsmummy · 13/10/2005 15:40

i think its a bit strict.

I am a christian, although not a regular church attender, and have been christened and confirmed.

DH thinks its all a load of crap and hasnt been christened or anything.

Jess was christened without any problems in a church that didnt require us to attend for however long before hand or anything.

whether its because jessica's godparents are both christian church goers and have both been confirmed, i dont know.

This baby will get christened too.

tissy · 13/10/2005 15:44

er, yes, but that is what a service of thanksgiving is for. Baptism, does require commitment from the parents/ godparents and I think it's reasonable to have some evidence of that. Can't remember the exact words now, but parents and godparents are asked to make six (I think) declarations and promises on behalf of their child. This is a serious business, and not just a ceremony to mark the child's birth or naming.

tissy · 13/10/2005 15:46

sorry, my reply was to Lonelymum.

For the record, despit being a committed Christian, we haven't had dd Baptised, as at the moment, I don't feel that I would have the application to get dd to Church regularly. Hope to bring her up as a Christian, though.

Marina · 13/10/2005 15:47

It is certainly on the enthusiastic side for the C of E in my experience. If there are three lots of parents in the classes though Mommie, do you think it is possible that one set is giving him cause for concern and that he is trying not to single them out until he sees them in private.
As a practising member of the C of E I do believe in principle on welcoming all children whose parents want them baptised, into the church. I think that kind of ministry comes easier to some priests than others - and that some will be more suspicious of parents.
Can I ask, is your church linked to a local C of E primary? We moved from a church which was (top of the league tables too) to one which isn't, and have noticed

  1. that the number of baptisms at our new church is minute in comparison
  2. that those who do have their children baptised are never seen in church again - possibly because they are not angling for a place in a primary school. Which does make one a bit sad for the children involved Priests with the power to agree or veto a place do seem to be a lot more rigorous in their baptismal requirements...
Lonelymum · 13/10/2005 15:48

Well, I suppose in an ideal world, the parents would be regular church goers, but my understanding of baptism is that it is the initiation of the child into the church, the beginning of their (hopefully) lifelong commitment to the church.

jessicaandbumpsmummy · 13/10/2005 15:49

i wanted JEss done as a baby, and this baby will be done as a baby too. I cant get her to church regularly but she will be brought up christian.

She attended her first church service at 4 months old last xmas, and she will go again this year.

Its just the church i attended from the age of 5 is the one i ideally want jess to go to, but its 25 miles away and jsut not practical every week.

tissy · 13/10/2005 15:49

the party line!

Marina · 13/10/2005 15:51

I agree lonelymum but realistically a small child is never going to get to Church or Sunday school without its parents' encouragement and example.
Godparents can help, but the commitment has to be there with the parents too and I think tissy is being honest and realistic in holding off baptism until she feels her family can get to church reasonably frequently.

Marina · 13/10/2005 15:53

I see that the party line includes having most baptisms during morning service, with the support and participation of the usual congregation. I like our new church greatly but am very sad that all baptisms seem to be done separately from the Sunday service

jessicaandbumpsmummy · 13/10/2005 15:55

marina - thats what i didnt like about jess's christening - it was a private thing - not part of a sunday morning service.

because we have moved, the baby will be christened at my church and it will be done as a part of the morning service

Lonelymum · 13/10/2005 15:55

Oh I am not criticising anyone! I am actually RC and have had none of my four children baptised. I wanted to change that but I feel they are too old for it now (I mean, too old to have it imposed on them). I didn't do it when they were babies because I thought it would be hypocritical, not being a regular church goer myself. So i do understand where the vicar in this case is coming from, but I also think that if parents want their children baptised, the vicar could perhaps turn a blind eye to the parents' commitment for the sake of the baby. Think how many vicars marry people and never see them again!

Enid · 13/10/2005 15:56

I feel so terrible that I havent got round to getting dd2 baptised - and she is nearly 3 . Am now thinking of waiting till this new one is born and getting them both done together.

I do think you have to show a reasonable amount of commitment to the church though.

Original poster
mommie · 13/10/2005 16:43

marina - yes, it is linked to a school and those who apply to the school are required to attend church 2 sundays in every month. i do understand the rigour that they want from parents, and tbh, the reason i like church schools is that require the discipline of parents to go to church regularly, but i feel a bit 'on trial' here. Faith is a very personal issue and for some people, like me, conducted in all sorts of places and different times. Do you necessarily have to join the 'herd' or get deep into theology if you basically 'believe'.

OP posts:
Marina · 13/10/2005 18:34

I think I can see what he's about then Mommie, and to a certain extent I agree with him - but then there are cases like yours, where you are Christians but DON'T feel regular religious observance is what you want to commit to. And people like you do get put upon in the priests' concern to avoid "carpet-baggers".
This is a hard one . Sympathies...

edam · 13/10/2005 18:47

If he point blank refused to baptise your dd/ds then he's breaking the law (which the CofE site doesn't mention, I see). CofE is the established church ie part of our state and CofE vicars have a legal duty to care for all souls, from Anglicans to Zoroastrians if they request it. The CofE can't turn anyone away. Nor should they. How can a man of God turn a baby away?

Marina · 13/10/2005 18:49

I think he's being more cautious than that edam, but I feel his very stance is putting people like Mommie off and that's a very bad thing

edam · 13/10/2005 18:54

Agree. It must be frustrating, marrying and christening people you suspect you will never see again, but that's the nature of the job. You can't start turning people away on the basis that other people in similar circumstances stopped coming!

CarolinaFullMoon · 13/10/2005 18:55

but if you don't feel CofE enough to go to CofE services regularly, why would you want your child to have a CofE baptism? If you have your own take on Christianity that doesn't fit with organised religion, wouldn't you be better off not having the child baptised in church?

It's a slightly odd stance for the vicar to take though - surely he wouldn't want the poor child going round with the stain of original sin on its tiny soul, regardless of how keen its parents are on going to church?

tortoiseshell · 13/10/2005 18:55

I think it is normal to expect parents to attend classes/talks with the vicar, I guess because the parents and godparents have serious promises to make in the ceremony. It's a shame if it's putting you off though.

I always think of infant baptism as being for the parents tbh, it's the parents promising to bring the child up in a Christian environment, and the child's promises come at confirmation, so don't see it as him 'turning a baby away' - maybe he is just very blundering in the way he puts things?

tortoiseshell · 13/10/2005 18:56

CE doesn't do 'original sin' afaik Carolina! That's more RC I think.

CarolinaFullMoon · 13/10/2005 19:00

lol, tortoiseshell - i was brought up RC myself and don't know which bits are RC and which aren't .

If you're CofE, what happens if you don't get baptised? Isn't there a penalty? Do you just go to heaven anyway?

soapbox · 13/10/2005 19:03

I would guess that as the Alpha course was mentioned this is a rather evangelical church. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Matthew 19;14 springs to mind though!