I am trying to believe in God...but I am failing!

[AlwaysMeanWellOftenWrong]

I have started to go to church with my two children.

I am trying to open my mind and my heart and to let myself believe, but I can't.

I believe in the Christian way of life and I want to learn more about how to live as God wishes. I understand that God makes his feelings known to us through the Bible.

So, I read the first few lines of the Bible. After watching Stephen Hawking's talk about the Big Bang and other science programs that are on the telly at the moment - I am really struggling to accept it as God's word - literally anyway.

How can I get past this and get close to God, feel his love and truly believe?

I feel like such a hypocrite. Luckily, I know that God will forgive me if he does in fact exist, for I am truly sorry that I am so human that I don't believe.

OP,

Have you confessed your sins and asked for forgiveness?

Nicky Gumbel, shy and poor at public speaking?

ROFL - have you ever met Nicky?

So many myths and regurgitated internet opinions about Alpha here, which is par for the course, I guess.

Um .. there's a difference between being a bit shy and awkward in public, and being a bigot - comparing homosexuality to pedophilia is offensive in the extreme.

And Nicky Gumbel has taken it a massive step further by actually starting a group which seeks to spread such rot / persuade others to think in the same way.

No amount of shyness excuses this! Would you say the same about a 'Christian' leader that also preached white supremacy (it's OK, don't mind him, he's a bit shy )

Putting aside the virtues or otherwise of Alpha and Nicky Gumbel, I agree with the poster who mentioned that seeking and finding "absolute faith" is not reasonable. To believe doesn't mean that you understand everything, know everything, have a huge glowy relationship with God and feel absolutely certain that everything you hear via religion you have to do to be in a right relationship with God. The Bible does not (and is mostly not) to be taken literally - it was not written by the writers to be taken so. And the best place to find God in the bible, is by reading the Gospels.

You're not hypocritical, and you don't need to panic or worry about not feeling you've got it all sorted. Most people in the pews haven't got it sorted either and are all on a journey about discovering God and his reality.

Alpha does tend to be a more focused evangelical tool than other enquirers' courses. The most well-known alternative is Emmaus courses, which are about faith and bible exploration without commitment.

An old preacher's story is that you have to keep the onion in the vinegar to make it pickled. Just relax and be part of your local church and don't worry about your response and thinking - just explore them and do what you feel, and pursue what you want explaining.

colditz the bible as i understand it does not say any of that did not exist...please look at link i posted early on. the catholic church does not rule out evolution at all and the only theory it does not accept is an aetjiest view of evolution.

I think it is very uneducated to assume a chrisian only belives becuase they are uneducated.

When I'm anxious I believe in God. At other times I don't. Although I do find myself praying from time to time.

My mum is an atheist, I had no idea of this until recently I always assumed she was a Christian. Religion wasn't something we discussed when I was growing up, I just assumed that everyone believed in God.

When I was a child I went to quite a religious primary school. At the time I liked the security that it gave me and I liked having a moral framework to work within. I want the same for my boys but it is difficult because when I have been to church it just seems so irrelevant to our lives. I also find that a lot of church-goers are above themselves and that really isn't what I want for my children.

Now I have a problem with understanding how an educated woman can pick either Christianity or Islam as myth brands to buy into. I can sort of understand the idea that some people need to have some sort of imaginary friend, to believe that there's some 'thing' out there that's got your back and takes an interest in you - don't see the point of it myself at all but then I don't see the point of football either and it's very important to some people. But if you decide to pick a myth brand as the 'right' one, why not pick one that isn't riddled with misogyny and homophobia? I find it particularly weird when educated and not-obviously stupid women latch on to one of these nasty myths in adulthood despite not having been brought up within it.

Are you mistaking elements of the "religion" and how that has been expressed, for the "faith" that the religion codifies and helps express? Christianity across the centuries might have in its expression, subjugated women, but this is hardly the case today. The Catholic church has a bit of catching up to do but that will happen sooner or later. Mary Magdalen in one gospel, and a combination of Mary's and other women in another gospel, were the first to witness the resurrection - hardly misogynistic. And whatever homophobic texts are pulled from the bible, and there are only really two or three in the entire thing, there will be a a huge number of Christians who treat the bible differenly from a literal text because it isn't meant to be and never was; and hermeneutic study and understanding across dozens of centuries means that virtually all Christians nowadays are okay to eat shellfish and wear clothing of more than one fibre. Ditto re homosexual relations.

About Islam - I know very little about the Islamic faith but I do know that those I have heard on TV/radio and in the press who have discussed this subject, who are usually 'experts' or scholars, they indicate that the text of their holy writings does not condone any of the things that people get so irate about, and which extremist followers of that faith, "read into" the text, or impose upon it. That the things that concern are deviations and corruptions and distortions of what the text is actually trying to say.

I don't see how Jesus, living and dying, and showing how to live a life of love that doesn't count the cost, is a "nasty myth" or homophobic or misogynistic as such. The vast majority of Christians - men and women - in this country have no truck with misogyny or homophobia in the church either.

very eloquantly put dandydan...clearly your lack of education as a beliver has done you very little damage.

i would also like to but my bit in about misogyny al though very off the point of original thread. but i can honestly say i disagree with the ordanence of feamle priests. as the priest is the reprisentation of jesus christ and the nun is the reprisentation of our virgin lady both having very different but both of eaqual important roles to play in the church.

Mme Blue, I went to his church for about 10 years. That good enough for ya? Besides, you completely misread my post wrt his public speaking.

Lowrib, the point I'm making is that making sweeping statements does not assist understanding. Very few people are 100% bad. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that even the most heinously vicious criminal has done something good once in their lives. I'm not trying to get on a soapbox about the nature of human goodness, nor am I apologising for Gumbel's views.

Re Colditz's posts, it is a fact the the more educated a person is, the less likely they are to believe in God in a religious sense.

whatdoesntkillya - God isn't the obvious answer, at least not in a creationist sense. He's a cop out that avoids having to answer difficult or impossible scientific questions about how we came to be here.

This thread is going off in many different, interesting and not unexpected directions; I cannot keep up!

I am just going to accept that at the moment, I do not believe in the existence of God.

However, in my mind I feel that there is equal opportunity for him to either exist or not to exist.

I believe in the things I have heard at my recent church visits and what I learned during my youth about the principals of faith, commitment, challenge, forgiveness and values.

I will go to church for as long as it takes to either completely decide that I do not want to share in the worship or that I do. If I end up believing that God is actually in existence, that he sent Jesus to die to save us, then all the better.

But, I will never accept the earth was created in 6 days. I will never accept that gay/lesbians should live a life of misery in an unhappy male/female marriage and I will not spread the message to others as prompted by the Bible, because I do not feel comfortable doing that.

I will do my best to be a very decent and loving human being, but no angel, safe in the knowledge that if there is a God, he will forgive me, because I am truly sorry for all my sins.

Thank you DandyDan. An intelligent and eloquent post.

DandyDan: Well, the 'faith' (that there is a Big Pumpkin of some sort, up there in the sky, all powerful, but y'know invisible) is kind of irrelevant bollocks really. If peole want to think that, fine, whatever. But what interests me is why so many people choose to sign up to myth brands that promote male superiority at the expense of women, that are obsessed with covering women up, silencing them, having control over their bodies, and which also waste a lot of time promoting brand loyalty for the sake of it, to the extent of condoning violence against those who buy into different brands.

that is a very true and valid point and there does need to be modernisation of these views in most religions but we should accept that these chages can take place and as someone with faith but rarely attend church I do belive this could happen.

AuntLoretta: Well it would be nice if they could, sure. It would be lovely if all the myth brands could get the fuck over the woman-hating and infidel bashing and concentrate on the being nice to people aspect.
But, you know, I'm not exactly holding my breath...

Always - that sounds like a good decision based on the thoughts you've expressed thus far. Interestingly there's very little you've said that I wouldn't agree with.

I caught the end of a programme with the marvellous Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks a few weeks ago in which he had convos about faith with some prominent atheists. What I found fascinating was that both Sacks and several of the atheist folks said afterwards that they were pleasantly surprised to see how many points of contact they shared. They demonstrated that in religion, as in all aspects of life, taking an antagonistic approach to people's differences achieves little of benefit, whereas genuine open thought and discussion has the power to transform lives.

God is only the obvious answer if you already believe in God.

Allah is the obvious answer if your believe in Allah.

Reincarnation is the obvious answer if you believe in reincarnation.

Science, the practice of asking questions, is the obvious answer if you are not the type of person who can accept "Because someone really big says so".

OP I know exactly what you mean. I too stopped going to church as a teenager but began to return because of my own children and became a regular attender. Like you I expected and wanted to feel faith.

The wonderful local priest made me realise that faith is the searching for meaning,the desire for understanding and meaning - faith is NOT the certainty. Faith is what is making you want to explore and find out. Faith isn't something you know, absolutely, with utter certainty, all the time and can defend against other people's assaults. Faith is the response to God's call - which is what you are feeling. Fr Hugh said to me, 'I think you do have faith, you just don't know it.' From then on all I needed was the desire.
It sounds to me like you are in the same position that I was in then!

He also pointed out that religion is something that you do, not something intellectual that you just think about - you practise it, hence the word 'practising Catholic'. I suggest that you keep on going to Church and see where it leads you.

Also, if you read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, remember that very few Christians, and certainly not Anglicans or Catholics, take it all literally. There is a huge difference between scientific/literal truth and theological truth. No Catholics believe that God created the world in 6 days of 24 hours each! We believe as much as humanists or atheists that the big bang is a plausible theory which fits what science currently knows about the universe. Christians believe Genesis is a symbolic story.

Some reading might help. So many people - including so many who attack religion - have little understanding of the philosophy of religion and what people understand by the word 'God'. Amazing how many adults have an image of a man with a white beard living in heaven above the clouds. Even if you are going to a CofE church you might find this book interesting - 'The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Catholicism'. Stupid title but very informative.

Also praying! Try www.prayingeachday.org/
and www.pray-as-you-go.org/

Sorry for long post. Hope something of my ramblings is useful. Good luck.

Thanks Greenwing, useful and helpful.

That was such a helpful post Greenwing. Thank you.

Sensible post Greenwing.

I say that as a former christian who in the end couldn't maintain faith.

I'm not in the least regretful about that, but equally I can imagine an alternative where I ended up akin to you.

Always, I reckon your last post is pretty well-thought out too. It does occur to me that if you continue to not believe in God yet still feel the need for a spiritual home, a non-theistic religion such as Buddhism might suit you better.

I cant do links, but if you google it you can find a Time magazine article on 'Mother Teresa's crisis of faith'. Agree with what previous posters have said about trouble believing not being the same as lack of faith!

Have you thought about doing an Alpha course? They're very common and many churches run them. I did one and it really helped me to renew my faith in God. It's really relaxed and I had a good laugh! Here's the site, it'll help you find a course that's close to you! :) uk.alpha.org/

The entire dilemma rests on the position that deities either must or must not constitute part of our knowable universe and is a bit like flogging a dead horse.

Life Outside the "Spectrum of Theistic Probablility".

yoga-eu.net/bin/view/Yoga/YogaMatters

Hope this helps someone - somewhere