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Original poster

Minimu

69 replies

Bella32 · 28/02/2010 13:16

Hi there

I just wondered if you knew if/why the joint statement re Cesar Millan had been pulled? I have just tried to link to it but it has gone. I know the youtube clip of him shocking that dog (until it screamed) to teach it to stay away from the cat has also gone.

Any info?

TIA

OP posts:
thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 17:03

bella - could it be that he has a sell out tour of the UK in March and nobody wants to write nasty things that are unfounded?

If there is proof that he is cruel to animals in his training then i would like to see/read it. Having read his books he doesnt advocate any sort of cruel treatment to animals, just to treat them like dogs - not babies which sadly most people do.

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:08

Oh, the hills - if only you know what you were talking about

There are numerous videos of him abusing dogs on youtube. Most have now been pulled but there are still some out there if you look hard enough.

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MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:29

This makes quite good reading I think.

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:32

As does this.

thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 17:38

actually bella i DO know what i am talking about - i watched the link that you posted on the other persons thread (staffies) and he was not strangling that dog. I watched that episode and most people would have advised having that dog PTS for biting people.

please dont be patronising, there are lots of ways of dog training, not all ways are good, but not all are bad either.

Mrs L I am now off to look at your links.

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:43

Well, the major welfare, veterinary and behaviour organisations in the UK and US (among other countries) are all against CM's methods. Maybe we're all wrong

As for the sell out tour - I seem to remember a certain Mr Hitler being terribly popular at one point too...

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MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:45

Bella, although the press release has been pulled, I've found a cached version on google.

Hopefully this should hopefully work, if not I'll copy and paste.

It lists the organisations concerned at the bottom of the page.

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:46

MrsL - thank you

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MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:48

Meant to add, this probably explains why it's been pulled.

OhFuck · 28/02/2010 17:50

The major small animal veterinary organisations are backing a campaign against the use of such techniques - this is largely as a result of concerns arising from Cesar Millan's upcoming tour.

LINK

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:50

Lol, must laugh at how nosey we all looking at a thread clearly for someone else

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:51

all are

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:52

Well, if he finally sees the error of his ways and catches up with the decades of progress which had previously bypassed him, that would be good.

fwiw - thehills - I never advocate treating dogs as babies. I just prefer to use training methods which are humane. That's all.

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OhFuck · 28/02/2010 17:54

There's a broken link - HERE's the cached page including the joint press statement. You've got to admit, the list of organisations coming out to speak up against Millan's techniques does suggest that he's not generally supported by the professionals ...!

OhFuck · 28/02/2010 17:55

Oh dear, it took me so long to find what I was looking for you'd got there way before me MrsL, sorry!

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 17:56

Regardless of his training methods, I just can't stand him, he reminds me of a smarmy car salesman. Never trust a man with teeth whiter than tippex, IMO!

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:57

pmsl MrsL.

Good work, OhFuck

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thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 17:58

ok so the last article acknowledges that there are some differences in training methods and thoughts - surely that is the same all over.

Personally I wouldnt use a prong collar or shock treatment on an animal and doubt that most trainers would, but there are aspects of his 'way' that i do like.

A lot of dog training is common sense, other areas are about boundaries, which CM advocates - especially in powerful breeds. I have never seen him hurt an animal and i doubt that Nat Geo would continue to film if that was the case. Also, not everything that you read is true, we should know that by now. The case of Floyd Suarez was alleged and in 2006, havent seen anything since then to prove that CM did anything to hurt or harm his dog, surely by now it would have come to court and be settled in some way.

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 17:59

I - and others - have seen the videos.

Justify him all you like - I don't give a monkeys tbh.

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thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 18:03

ok - in an episode of CM a long time ago i saw him say that he didnt advocate certain things (like prong collars) but as the owner had it he would see what he could do, but then he removed the collar as the dog wasnt 'reacting' to the collar, probably so used to it and de- sensitised etc.

He cant possibly be all bad - surely there are some parts of what he does that you think are good?

thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 18:08

i think comparing him to Hitler is stupid and nonsensical. Since when has a dog behaviourist even been on a par to a genocidal maniac?? really????

I am not going to change my mind because some journalist has 'alleged' something that may or may not be founded. I am totally open minded and would like some proof before i go posting on a facebook page or slandering someone in public.

if you have seen videos then show me, post the links to them, i am a grown up and can make my own mind up.

I am not wrong in saying what i think Bella, it is my opinion.

thehillsarealive · 28/02/2010 18:11

bella (& others) - can you tell me what is not humane about CM's work. Apart from the choke chains and the like please, which I have already said that i dont like. I am interested to know your thoughts on this - apart from the white teeth thing. That is personal preference

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 18:17

I guess you either agree with his methods of training or you don't. I agree that there could be a middle ground (i.e. using some of his methods and not others), but the problem is that people take his word as gospel and will follow all of his techniques, not just some of them, regardless of whether they are correct or not (or safe). Such is the power of a TV deal unfortunately.

I don't watch him anymore as I just end up shouting at the TV, and TBH it gets a bit tiring watching some 4 foot goatie guy with a bad accent trying to puff himself up to dominate a pomeranian. Kind of amusing when you've had a glass of wine, but not a method I would like to use in training my dogs.

MrsL123 · 28/02/2010 18:19

'Apart from choke chains and the like' - that's kind of a big one, is it not? Apart from that - staring dogs down, leering over them, pinning them to the floor, jabbing them in the ribs, 'tapping' (aka kicking) them in the side to stop them pulling on the lead, yanking on the lead to 'correct' them....

Give me Ms Stillwell any day.

Original poster
Bella32 · 28/02/2010 18:36

My Hitler comment was a way of saying that, just because someone is popular does not mean he is right.

I am not basing my opinion on any journalist's allegations. I am basing it on youtube videos where he has repeatedly used an electric shock collar which made the dog cry out in pain every time. This was to teach the dog to leave a cat alone.

Another video showed him pin a dog to the ground and asphyxiate it - I am an ex vet nurse and know the signs of extreme stress and asphyxiation when I see them. As do many other veterinary professionals who have watched the same video.

I'm not interested in changing your mind - you seem completely unwilling to consider the professional opinions of all the bodies who have spoken out against CM. So be it.

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