Minimu

[Bella32]

Hi there

I just wondered if you knew if/why the joint statement re Cesar Millan had been pulled? I have just tried to link to it but it has gone. I know the youtube clip of him shocking that dog (until it screamed) to teach it to stay away from the cat has also gone.

Any info?

TIA

OK, perhaps I do need to start a separate topic for serious discussion, though I'm not sure that's possible here. I am interested in the behaviour of animals in the wild versus their behaviour when humans take those animals into their homes and how some humans fail to understand the dynamics. I didn't read any posts as people trying to be lighthearted, because I don't see how people who are really concerned about the dogs on the Milan show could be lighthearted.

In fact, I still can't see how people could lighten up this thread when it appears to be about people who see Milan as being someone who is cruel to animals.

Uglymugly - dogs were not wild animals taken into homes. That was the ok'd theory - that man took wolf cubs in and tamed them, but it's been shown that you can't do that: wild wolves remain wild. Dogs are now believed to have evolved from early dogs which scavenged on rubbish dumps at early human settlements, and natural selection favoured those with the shortest flight distance, i.e. the naturally 'tamer' ones.
Domestic dogs behave as domestic dogs behave, not as wolves do.
Don't mean to sound brusque - am on phone and finger is sore

ugly mugly - so do you advocate all of Cesar Milans training methods and ways of behaving with the dogs that he treats? And if so can you tell me why.

Also I am being serious - I know that MrsL was being lighthearted in some posts, that is fine, but i am also interested in what others think and why.

Bella - I was led to believe that wild dogs were taken in by tribes people to guard their possessions and this is how some became domesticated along the way. (that is a very short timeline of events but like you my fingers are too sore now and also i am multi tasking!)

Thehills - it has been proven that you cannot domesticate a wolf. The seminal work on domestic dog evolution is Raymond Coppinger's 'Dogs' - his theory and research on village dump dogs is now widely accepted. I believe the mitochondrial DNA evidence also disproves the wolf theory.

no didnt mean wolves - i wouldnt class wolves and dogs as the same actually, i believe that the DNA disproves that they are related.

I meant wild dogs, cant provide any more 'proper information' than that at the moment as i am too shattered for my brain to work at functioning level, but if i have a lightbulb moment i will return. I do believe it was a South African person who domesticated a wild dog/dingo type and keeps the breed line going.

anyway, no doubt someone will come along and give a true and accurate educated synopsis.

On phone so apologies for any errors. Modern dog training hinges on working out a dog's motivation. Previously this has incorrectly been assumed to be a quest to dominate their 'pack'. Now it is known that dogs are motivated by resources and rewards. That alone, in my opinion, is evidence for the theory that dogs evolved as opportunistic scavengers who relied upon human settlements to provide food.

ok found this from the domestication of dogs publication.

domestication theory

i cant get the other link to work re the S African dogs

ohfuck - you mentioned in a previos post that 'in your line of work' do you mind me asking what you do?

I agree that the evolvement of dogs relied upon humans and vice versa, otherwise I cant really see how it could have come about.

Xpost again.

I'm a vet, hills.

By 'people', I take it you mean me, uglymugly? I care about dogs, I care about what people do to them and how people treat them. What I don't feel the need to do is hijack someone else's thread with the intent (it seems) of causing an argument and/or trying to make people feel bad for making a lighthearted comment or two in an effort to stop this turning into yet another love/hate Cesar argument. Frankly I think it's pretty narrow minded of you to assume that I'm not concerned about CM's methods because I made a joke about his teeth. Lighten up a bit.

thanks ohfuck - I wont tell my dog that, doubt he will want to see a vet again for a while. he was castrated on Friday and has cried all SAturday, had to go get him some metacam for him, poor wuss.

now... tell me, dya fancy lead walking him for me for 10 days!!!!??????

Watch out thehills - making lighthearted comments on this thread? How very dare you?

mrsL- my intention wasnt to hijack bellas thread (if you meant me) but i am and always will be interested in others POV on dog training and methods. Nor is it my intention of causing an argument - a disagreement of opinion is not an argument to me.

Aside - i thought your leering at dogs and extra whitened teeth was quite funny. I am not too keen on goatee's either.

No thehills I didn't mean you

lmao mrsl - i am not joking, if i can get anyone who knows anything about my dog to walk him for me in the next week i am up for it. It is hell, he is so much better now and is desperate to run, but i cant let him, have done everything to drain him mentally, walked him for a while on paths and round our local market town, but it isnt the same is it?

I feel your pain thehills - my 10 month old lab is recovering from an operation on her elbow on the 26th Jan, and has to be crated all day for two months with short on-leash walks only. She's also in season, so you can imagine how hyper she is at the moment! Have you ever seen a dog try to do bum-tuck runs on a kingsize bed? It's quite amazing! She's back to see the surgeon on Tuesday though, so we're really hoping he'll sign her off for proper walks again.

If I know Minimu, she is very unlikely to turn up here now anyway. She doesn't like these debates much - nor do I.

Thanks to the inimitable MrsL , however, I think I have an answer to my original question and I hope CM does work with the American Humane Association to improve his methods.

Thanks, MrsL

You're welcome bella

For what it's worth, I would be quite interested in a discussion on the domestication of dogs too - I just didn't think this was really the place, as seen as you were just asking a simple question completely unrelated to that. And although I appear to have offended some people by trying to lighten the mood a bit, I shall continue posting about my dislike of insanely white teeth at every opportunity

Carry on, MrsL.

Don't let the buggers get you down, that's my motto