my dog has just bitten my little girl

[heartsore]

and i am going to have to put him to sleep now and i am feeling horrific. i feel terrible that i let my daughter get bitten (by keeping my dog whom i love even though i know he isnt safe with kids) and that i am going to have to say goodbye to my dog.

am just grateful that he didnt get her face but her hand.

oh god, i cant talk about this in RL with anyone because they will all just tell me its my own fault and i know it is, but that doesnt mean im not going to miss my dog.

and my poor DD, god, i feel awful

sorry this is a bit scrambled i am just so so upset.

My friend's dog bit my daughter a couple of years ago. He then went on to bite their friend, he bit his girlfriend and they spent 2 years trying training etc with a dog therapist but in the end he bit the girlfriend again badly and so they had to put him down. With both the vet and the dog therapist agreeing.

Very sad but unfortunately sometimes there is nothing more you can do.

Can I just ask Valhalla - are these dogs you rehome walked in public?

The dog the OP has is a huge breed, very powerful. How could you expect someone to control a breed of dog like that? Presumably these dogs need to be walked, they need their exercise.

I have to walk my two to school and back every day and every day there are dog walkers around, some with kids and some without. One teacher has already been bitten by an untethered dog and a number of kids have been bitten by tethered dogs as they've raced past them coming out of school. I've also been jumped at by an aggressive dog on my way back from school.

I resent the fact that although I have chosen not to own a dog myself, that my children can still be put in danger by other dog owners.

If a dog is dangerous around people, it should be put down. They are overbred and inbred. Most of them suffer enormously because of cross-breeding and others are housed in unsuitable houses that don't offer adequate room. If this dog is rehomed you are merely transferring the risk to someone else. Even if the new owners don't have kids, you cannot offer a guarantee that the dog will never come into contact with children again or that it will not bite someone else - an elderly person or the postmane - anyone. Once a dog is prone to biting, everyone is in danger of being bitten, they just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sorry but there comes a point when maintaining peoples safety is more important than the life of an unstable dog.

Rhubarb, I have a dog, and I would not leave my dog tied up in public - that is irresponsible, in my opinion. Could you contact the dog warden and get them to do some patrols near your dcs school during dropping off and picking up times - if they see dogs acting aggressively towards people, they can deal with the owners there and then.

That said, I do think some dogs can be rehabilitated - I honestly believe that Valhalla knows what she is doing and would make sure any dog she rescued went to the right home, with an owner who would know the dog's history and would have the experience and knowledge necessary to control the dog and keep the public safe.

I just wanted to speak up for Vallhala - please don't make her the focus of all your anti-dog feelings.

A dog with behavioural issues which has been properly assessed by an experienced person and is undergoing behavioural treatment is much less of a risk than the many dogs out there who have behavioural issues and are in the hands of frankly igonrant people.

All credit to Vallhala for trying to help the dog.

Rhubarb - you might want to check the definition of many of the words and phrases you band about so readily wrt dogs. Your usage of them and the context shows you do not understand their meaning at all.

OP - I hope you get the situation sorted out to your satisfaction and that your dd is okay.

I trust the experienced person that assess the dog, but don't trust the less experienced prospective owner of such dog.

morningpaper, I don't mind being called "misguided" (I think it's bull, mind you, as otherwise I have had/seen lots of misguided success and experience, but I really don't care if you call me it), I don't mind being called "honourable", though I'm not sure you're right and prefer "moral" or even "bloody mad animal rights supporter", but "sweet"?

Per-lease!

Other than that, Val-bash away those who wish to, 'cos while you're having a go at me....

On a far more serious note, I've heard from heartsore and for reasons which I can't go into here as they are personal to her (nothing whatsoever to do with the dog), it's impossible for me to help. I wish I could, if it was in my power I would, but I can't and, as heartsore says, she feels that she must stick to her decision. I respect that as I feel that she would have let me help if it was possible for me to do so.

My heart's heavy tonight, not just for that poor dog and my feeling of utter helplessness, but also for the humans involved... and those who know me, know that's not something I say often or lightly.

Bella, while you're putting Rhubarb right, which are the words and phrases you find contentious? Be fair, she might well want to take you up on this.

Heartsore - my heart goes out to you. This can't have been an easy decision, and I know you must be hurting now. I'm sure you did your very best for this dog. I hope you feel better soon.

{{hug}}

It's a shame this dog couldn't be helped, however, I must say, if a dog of his size was really vicious, surely he would have have caused more than a bruise on a childs hand? what is your reason for wanting to put him down rather than rehome?

As an owner of a "dangerous" breed myself, I find people such as the poster who suggested all such dogs should be banned completly a tad ignorant, since when was a boxer x even considered a dangerous type anyway?

I wonder what caused this particular dog to have issues when it seems to have been raised properly, how old was he when you got him?

Yes actually I would like to know Bella, which words? I think I've been very reasoned and have not had a go at anyone at all.

SDTG - the school have sent a letter round to parents requesting that they do not leave dogs tethered outside the school, but this has been ignored. I've also had a word with the community support officer who said that as the dogs were tethered, they were not therefore, out of control and there was nothing he could do.

Dogs are a problem round here. Most of the families seem to have a dog of some description and they range from yappy terriers to Ridgebacks. The school walk is full of dog shit - I've yet to find the person responsible but when I do I shall not hold back.

I realise not all dog owners are irresponsible. I've been around dogs all my life, worked with dogs, my brother trained dogs for the army and now shows dogs. But there are some dogs that are hard to control even for adults - should that dog turn on a child who's just run past it as children tend to do, how does the owner control it? How do you control a huge Ridgeback that feels threatened?

Bella - do come back and inform me where I have gone wrong in my posts and what words I have used that are wrong. As someone with a degree in English I am ready to be enlightened as to the error of my ways.

Heartsore - I have just seen this thread and wanted to tell you about what happened to DS 2 years ago.

When I met DH he had an Irish Staff from a pup. DD was 2 at the time and they got on great. She would lie on his belly and tell stories etc. When DS was born 5 years ago, he was introduced slowly. Unfortunately, because of the size of the dog he was kept in the utility room. He had a dog flap and a fenced off piece of garden, so still had freedom. He came out when the Dcs had gone to bed or if DH was here.

2 years ago on a Sunday morning, DH was unloading the dishwasher, DS(3) was putting rubbish in the bin and I was in the lounge. The dog went mad, DS started screaming and DH shouted. The dog had had DS's face all because he wanted the left over chinese takeaway from the bin and DS had pushed him away.

Luckily the bite hadn't gone all the way through. A & E said he was very lucky, and he only has a tiny scar across his cheek.

The dog was put to sleep, there was no other choice. I would never trust any dog with children, no matter how gentle you think they are.

I have to say that I feel the OP has made the right decision, and I agree with Rhubarb's posts.

But Valhalla, can I just say that even as a person who has little personal interest in dogs myself, I am impressed with your sensitivity here too.

Glad that your DD is not badly hurt, OP; a lucky escape, well done for being brave enough to face up to this (and post about it!).

Unfortunately dogs can be very unpredictable. SweetNiblets I'm so relieved for you that no further damage was done.

What people don't seem to realise is that dogs are animals - they are not children. Yes they can be taught and trained, but you can never completely take away their animal instincts and when threatened, they will defend themselves the only way they know how. They don't have the intelligence to see that the child was merely jumping over it to catch a ball, or pulled its tail out of curiousity - to them children are spontaneous, unpredictable things that are possible threats.

When I was around 11 I was playing on a swing when I saw an alsation pass by, I called to it but it just looked at me and walked past. 5 mins later it had come behind me, dragged me backwards off the swing and proceeded to attack me. I could see passers-by looking but no-one came to help. The owner was a little girl of around 8 who was begging me not to scream as that would make the dog attack me even more.

Eventually I did manage to get away, but that was my first lesson about the unpredictably of dogs. This being the 1980s that dog's owners merely received a warning and advice to muzzle their dog in public.

My next encounter was whilst working as a kennel maid for a YTS scheme. I was 17 and weighed around 7 stone, I was left on my own in charge of around 30 dogs all day. My duties were to feed and water them, clean the kennels and take them for walks. One day I went to change the food of a staffy. Friendly dog that would jump up and lick you. I entered the kennels, stroked the dog, then turned my back on it to pick up the food. It launched itself at me and pinned me up against the wall trying to bite me. I remember I had my hands round its neck trying to keep it's teeth away from me. I managed to kick it and made a run for the door. When I turned back the dog was its usual friendly self. I can only think that it attacked me because I was getting its food.

I still love dogs, I can never resist stroking one. But I would never have one as a pet. I have taught my kids never to stroke one they pass by, to read the signs and what to do in case of an attack. Because there are so many dogs around here I feel that is necessary.

If you have a dog I strongly feel that you have a duty to ensure the dog is safe around everyone. That you can take it for a walk and be sure that should a child run past it, the dog isn't going to try and take a bite. If you cannot guarantee that then you shouldn't have the dog. Because most attacks happen outside the home.

Not that I'm getting at anyone who has posted on this thread. I understand the strong bond between dog and owner, I've had that bond myself. Most people who have posted on here have acted responsibly and have good hearts. I do not blame the OP for what happened and I applaud her for acting swiftly. What I do question is the success of rehabiliation of these dogs and I question the motives of people who keep dangerous breeds around children - or indeed who just keep dangerous breeds!

Rhubarb I completely agree with your last post.

We were quite confident that we didn't have a dangerous dog. DH had a special bond as he had had him from a pup. We were aware of what could happen which is why he was kept away from the DC's when DH wasn't around. He was quite a large irish staff and too big for me to handle.

He always insisted on walking in front of the Dc's when we were out, as if he was the pack leader. Food was a big issue and that was his downfall. Unfortunately, completely by accident DS got inbetween the dog and food and animal instincts took over.

Rhubarb - if you read my post you will see that I did not accuse you of being contentious or having a go at anyone.

I merely pointed out that, in terms of genetic and dogs, you post contains several errors. A degree in English does not qualify you in genetics, biology or animal behaviour. You are clearly very proud of your degree: I got mine many years ago, am studying towards another and have picked up several professional qualifications along the way, but I do not tend to shout about it. Perhaps the novelty just wears off?

To quote you:

If a dog is dangerous around people, it should be put down. They are overbred and inbred.

Overbreeding and inbreeding compromise dogs' health, yes, but their behaviour is partly innate and partly learned, and cannot be attributed solely to genetics. You cannot suggest that dogs who are overbred or inbred (I am assuming you know the difference) are dangerous and should be put down.

You then go on to say that "Most of them suffer enormously because of cross-breeding" - in fact, the opposite is true. Cross-breeding results in far fewer dogs who are heterozygous for recessive alleles which cause hereditary disease. Cross-bred dogs are generally healthier. Again, this is largely a health and not a behaviour issue.

I am sorry you had such a horrific experience: that should never happen to anyone. But, as I said, please do a little research.

lol - should be homozygous of course.

Late night last night

Cross-bred dogs are generally healthier. Again, this is largely a health and not a behaviour issue

no no no...

this completely ignores rearing, diet, lifestyl factors. the proof is rubbish (as crossbreeds attend the Vet identified as the dog of nearest type) It also ignores the fact that many crossbreeds are phenomenally in-bred (due to the common practice of father-daughter, then subsequent father-grandaughter matings in the puppy farms that produce them).

also, i totally agree crossbreeding does not = bad temperament.

I fully agree with all the posters on this thread that this particular dog is very unsafe, and the only option is for it to be PTS. I really hope however that anyone else in a similar situation would have a good think and explore other options if a dog bites. My sons are not 18 and 15 and during there childhood we had 3 dogs, and all of them had a biting incident at some time. My old mongrel, sho was getting on a bit, would have a snap if played with too vigorously. Henry the Dachshund could be pushed a bit too far too although he was the soppiest of dogs and fortunately his teeth were so blunt that you didn't actually realise you had been bitten at all. Sometimes, if you have a sensible and steady small dog children will push them too far whe they are tired or have been inadvertantly teased. The last incident however, with my very recently deceased 16 year old PBGV was about 8 years ago. DS1 dropperd a packet of Smarties on the kitchen floor and as he went to collect them up the dog went for him in a really ferocious way and made lots of marks on his arm and drew blood. WE really did have to thave a think about what to do. We banned him from being anywahere around food and completely ruled out treats and tit bits. It never happend again - he could be a bit growly when much older and sleepy but he never bit again, so one incident does not necessarily mean it will happen again - as some of you will know he lived another 8 years and died in his sleep a couple of weeks ago.

bedlambeast - I accept you are not having a go. At the time I posted for advice on a dog owners forum and was flamed.

I am more of a lurker than a poster but when I read the op it struck a chord and I wanted to offer a point of view from my personal experience, as I know how heartsore is feeling.

The dog and the DCs had been supervised around each other for 5 years with no incident or possible cause for alarm and a terrible accident still occurred. I am not defending ourselves as dog owners or the dog.

EAS - we have had this discussion before and got nowhere. You are clearly talking about puppy farmed designer crosses - Cavapoos etc.

I am talking about cross bred dogs, not designer breeds.

People's general mis-understanding of dogs astounds and saddens me.

My dogs are an absolute joy in my children's lives and I wouldn't have it any other way. I simply can't imagine not having a dog in my household, they are a part of my family.

No breed of dog is dangerous, it is a dog's upbringing that makes it dangerous. Too many pet dog owners do not udnerstandthe basics of dog training,how a dog's mind works or how it learns things. How many owners tell their dogs off for growling, as they see it as a sign of aggresion and 'aren't having that' from their dog? How many owners expect their dogs to be sat on and pulled about by children and tolerate it without ever reacting. Then we get the 'well, the dog was great, my daughter could do anythign with it,t hen one day it just turned'. Maybe one day the dog just decided it had to protect itself?!

I could go on, but I won't.

bedlambeast this quote is from CountryGirl "As an owner of a "dangerous" breed myself, I find people such as the poster who suggested all such dogs should be banned completly a tad ignorant, since when was a boxer x even considered a dangerous type anyway?"

Also bedlam I fail to understand why you criticise me for wanting to stroke strange dogs but not my own when I've said I don't have a dog. I do not own a dog because I have children and wouldn't get a dog unless they were much older. I however do like dogs and should one approach me, tail wagging, I do tend to pat it. I always have done and my children see me doing this so they know not to be frightened that every dog is a vicious animal wanting to attack them. Caution is what I teach them and how to read a dog's warning signs.

Bella - I worked very hard for my degree so permit me to mention it every now and then with pride

My comments: Overbred - there are far too many dogs in this country in my opinion. That's why dog homes are overcrowded and many healthy dogs have to be put down because there is nowhere for them to be housed.

Inbred - yes I agree that it is a very unhealthy practice for dogs to be inbred, but it is far from uncommon to have a show dog bred with her son in the hope of producing more show dogs.

Cross-breeding - wiki actually has a very good article on it here. It may be your opinion that cross-bred dogs are healthier, but it is an opinion that has not been proved and many other breeders and scientists would disagree with you. In fact it is widely acknowledged that not enough research has been done on the effects of cross breeding in dogs.

I also think that aggression is largely in the dogs natural temperament. It defends its territory and fights off aggressors or challengers in the wild. They are also natural hunters in the wild. Those are natural characteristics. You can influence that as a dog owner and either bring up a dog to be peaceful, loving and protective or you can train it to be vicious. Any dog can be trained to be aggressive - any dog.

I hear your points, they are as valid as mine, but I retain the right to disagree with them as our experiences obviously differ greatly.