Has anyonr had to rehome a dog? Desperately in need of advice

[pandabob]

To cut a long story short, we are having to think about whether to rehome our dog, a cavalier KC spaniel. He has snapped at members of the family a number of times, seemingly from know where, one time breaking the skin on my dd's hand. It is a very sudden and aggressive snap.

We initially took him to the vet who checked him physically etc. We have then taken him to a behaviourist (also a vet)our vert recommended who was very helpful. Had a really long session, at the end of which he basically said that it did not seem to be an issue which could be trained out of the dog. He said he is generally a lovely well behaved dog, but he has an 'irritable' streak and it is for us to decide whether he is a dog we can live with. This is partly he said as there has not been any warning of him snapping, not really linked to anything, just if he's being 'grumpy'.

So we decided to be more careful in not disturbing him when asleep, being strict etc, however, yesterday he snapped again at a friends teenage daughter and scratched her skin. As people think he is a very friendly placid dog (which is is 99% of the time) it was such a shock for her and we obviously felt dreadful.

We have now come to the point where we feel no real option but to rehome him. Although we love him we, particularly dh, can't see how we can have a dog in the house that we can't trust to be stroked by people coming to our house (different if small children but this was a sensible, dog owning 17 yr old). The behaviourist has said he would be happy to recommend him for rehoming to someone without children.

I just feel absolutley awful at giving up on him and losing a part of our family and can't imagine not having him, but feel we're kidding ourselves by keep giving him another chance - which in a way has been easier as he is a small dog, but no less serious.

Has anyone else been through similar?

Thanks

My dog is very 'grumpy', but has only ever snapped at DH and not seriously. I think he senses that DH is nervous of him and knows he has more chance of pushing the boundaries with him than with me and he doesn't even try with the dds.

What has made it better is having his own 'safe space' to sleep in. Where he is not disturbed or approached by anyone. When he gets fed up/wants to sleep and the dds are about he goes to his space and knows he will be left alone. We used a soft crate for this and taught the dds not to go near it.

I am not really a big believer in the theory that things can't be trained out of/dealt with in dogs tbh. There is a reason he is behaving the way he is. You just need to indentify that reason.

Just another sugestion to rehoming. If you do feel you still need to rehome though, there are plenty of posters on here who will be willing to help. Do NOT go to the RSPCA. I'm not sure that Dogs Trust is much better either. You could try contacting a breed specific rescue.

Have been through similar 3 years ago. We tried - and failed - to rehome a springer, and had to have him put down. He suffered from something akin to 'cocker rage' (according to a cocker rage expert who saw him) - would flip for no apparent reason (long story, irrelevant to this...).

Over the 3 years we had him he occasionally snapped at us and was horrible to our other dog. We saw behaviourists, had private dog training, and did lots of things that helped (particularly changing his diet), but he was never quite right. We new the signs but we couldn't leave him with strangers or even family.

Then when ds1 was about 6mo he suddenly got much worse again over the course of about 2 weeks. It got to a point where he wouldn't let us near him (growled in a very scary manner) and wouldn't let us go out (sat by front door growling). He bit the vet who came to examine him, and the vet recommended rehoming or putting to sleep. He was right - I know that if I hadn't this dog would have killed or badly injured ds1 at some point.

The point of my story is that by the time he got to this stage none of the rehoming places would take him because he had bitten (proper skin-piercing, drawing blood etc). They all said that they wouldn't and couldn't rehome a dog known to be aggressive. My advice - if you've ruled out a medical cause - would be to rehome asap whilst you still can.

I really feel for you. It is heartbreaking going through something like this.

Thanks Shiny, that's really helpful. We have made his bed a no-go, his space which we thought had been helping but the last time it happened he was just lying on floor, not even asleep. He'd been playing a lot just before so was presumably tired but no excuse.

We really want to have tried everything which is why we went to the vet and the behaviourist. We've also tried being firm, not fussing him etc. Its got a bit to the state though where the children particularly don't know what they are allowed to do with him.

It just seems such a shame as he is otherwise such a lovely dog. I know that sounds like just being soft but he is. Equally I know I have to also be a responsible parent.

OP - what exactly happened when your dog snapped at the 17 year old?

Sorry to hear about your experience MrsJohn. It is a very sudden flip that he does, hasn't progressed form there but that is really useful advice in terms of not leaving it too long, where we think we are being kind hanging on.

She was babysitting, which made me feel worse, she and my dd had been playing with the dog, throwing a toy for him to fetch etc. My dd had gone to bed. The dog had then just been lying on floor and she'd gone to stroke him and she said he turned his head very quickly and quite fiercely and snapped. She made out that he hadn't bitten her but her hand was scratched so I think it was only luck that her hand wasn't closer. When she described it, this is exactly what he has done before.

Personally I would get another behaviourist. Also was the dog sleeping? Really you should never disturb a sleeping dog..

So, would I be right in thinking it's when people approach him to stroke him? You said in your earlier post that you're trying not to approach him when he's sleeping - that's an incredibly basic rule of dog ownership and any dog can be excused for snapping if it is woken.

Has his hearing been checked ?

I think it sounds like he is fed up being bothered when he'd rather be left alone, tbh.

She said he wasn't asleeep.

If the dog were lying on the floor tired and about to go to sleep then it is virtually the same as being asleep. As I said, I'd be going to another behaviourist.

No , not asleep this time, but he has been woken previously, yes?
How old is he?

Yes, it has mostly been when people have approached him. Whilst it might be an incredibly basic rule of dog ownership it is hard to balance being rightly respectful and leaving him when he is asleep, which is what we have been trying to make sure we do, and never being able to trust that people can go near him when he is not asleep and know how he will react.

HAs he got a crate? SOmewhere he can go to where he can guarantee he wont be disturbed?

The time he bit my daughter he wasn't asleep or woken or had been siting next to her feet and she lent to stroke him.

He did have a crate but we haven't really space to keep it up now, he had it until he was about 5 months, he's 2 and a half now. He has a bed in a quiet corner of the kitchen where the children aren't allowed to disturb him, he can go and sleep.

I don't really trust my fathers Akita a great deal. I used to when I lived there. He was my dog. I'd roll around the floor having play fights with him, but he is old and grumpy now and his size is off putting.

A basic rule I follow with him - and have always advised people he has never met to do - is never approach him. I always let him come to me, or I call him to me. I never just approach him. I don't really do that to my dog either, unless he knows it's bed time and he's hiding. In which case he is expecting me to approach him anyway.

This is easier said than done when there are children involved though. Would they be old enough to learn?

Think of it this way, if you were happily dozing/comfy on the sofa would you appreciate people wandering over to you and patting your head?

When you say that you've been being 'strict' what do you mean by that?

Thanks Shiny, yes the children are old enough to learn, 11 and 13, especially if it means we can keep him. I am just worried I will always be on tenterhooks about him and then feel naive if it happens again and I'd tried to wish it away. I may suggest we try th complete no approach. It hard as people who come to the house to still see a little friendly dog and perhaps treat him differently to how they would treat a bigger dog. I think it's also a shock as our previous dog could be messed with, stroked whenever and had never even growled. I think we'd thought he wold be that kind of pet but it just isn't his temperament.

God, yes, I would be doing the no approach technique with him. Far better than having him rehome especially as your children are old enough to learn themselves. One of ours is a great dane and dd since the age of 2 has been great at training it.

What about giving it a treat over time each time it is approached (only when wide awake of course) so it associats you approaching with something good.

By strict I just mean being firm with the basic rules he's always had, not going upstairs, on furniture, not rushing to door when someone knocks, manners i guess. Also strict with the children of not fussing him, not letting their friends over fuss him, leaving him alone if he goes to his bed.

Can you tell me what you mean by being strict, please?

X post - well your dog has asked your family several times, in the only way he can, to please leave him alone if he is sleeping or resting. But they still won't. You're not the ones who are on tenterhooks - he is. He cannot rest or relax without the worry that someone will bother him - and if he warns them that he doesn't like it, then his family get stricter with him.
I have very small dc who know they must never approach our dogs if they are asleep or resting: you need to teach your teenagers the same.

We haven't particularly become more strict, just making sure we are all still being consistent. I hear what you are saying and appreciate the advice. I think my concern when I say tenterhooks is that this is how he reacts when he doesn't like something. He isn;t frequently bothered. The first time this happened my dh walked near him when he had a chew, not tried to take it off him, or bothered him. Just walked a few feet away. Both the vet and the behaviourist told us that whilst he should have his own space this is not an acceptable way for a dog to react.

Look at it this way - your dog has not been allowed his own space or peace but you expect him to behave like a relaxed confident dog? Can you see how it is entirely possible that, had the family behaved properly around him from day one, this situation would never have arisen?

I understand your being on tenterhooks. I hear what people are saying re his own space, but his reaction is still unacceptable and abnormal- fair enough, you might not be keen on someone stroking you while you were sleeping, but would you jump up and smack them in the face?

By all means see another behaviourist, just to have covered all the angles, but my experience of these guys is that they tend to get worse rather than better- by giving them their own designated space and never instigating contact you are reinforcing that that is his right, and if anyone accidentally crosses his boundaries, he will react accordingly.

sadly, some of these guys do seem to have inbred behavioural anomalies- lots of studies have linked this kind of sudden aggression back to certain breeding lines, especially in some of the more popular breeds. If you were to try rehoming I would go through the breed rescue society first off- some people can live with dogs like this. If i'm honest, I wouldn't be able to. It is a difficult one, but, I'm sorry to say, a lot of dogs I see like this end up euthanased, as many end up really hurting someone. if you do decide to keep him, you have to be very careful. Sorry, I know that probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's just my experience.