Am I entitled to my money back for a puppy I can't keep?

[cordonbleugh]

basically, I have a puppy I can't keep, he is 13 weeks old, and has done exeptionally well with training etc, knows quite a few commands already, is very clever etc, apart from one issue - the biting, it's not just normal biting and rough play, but is actually very agressive.

Before you say anything, I have tried EVERYTHING to train him out of this, no techniques work, and when his agression is directed at my 3yo DD, I just cant take the risk that he will grow out of it.

It's not fair on her, DD can't be a normal 3yo, do anything she norally does for fear of getting attacked!

So, the breeder has agreed to have him back, but says she has no money to refund to me!

I'm assuming that she used the money for the sale of the puppies to pay off a large debt, because 8 puppies at £250 each is a lot of money!!

He is not purebred by the way, so he is not kennel club registered or anything like that.

I have asked her to have him back asap, otherwise he will go to dogs trust or somewhere similar, but now she is getting a bit nasty towards me (via text!) about the whole situation.

I made a mistake in getting the puppy and fully admit to that, now i just want him gone before he hurts DD again. I did a LOT of research, and waited months before getting him btw, so it was definately not and impulse decision, it just hasn't worked out

Anyone got any advice?

bella, this thread is "littered "
with"barking mad" doggy nutcases

Now, now, jasper - no need to be bitchy

Make no bones about it, I need to paws before I post

lol you two

I would also like to apologise to thesuhshinesbrightly......who i think i may have been slightly rude to no hard feelings?

Ladies, three cheers for CB who has acted with consideration for Alfie throughout despite having a really tough time of it. I apologise too for being sceptical of her commitment to finding Alfie a good home at first. I was wrong - sorry CB.

I see so many in her situation who would not have done as she has.

Alfie is going to the ex-H of a very well respected rescue volunteer known to me and I have no doubt whatsoever that he will be loved and cared for and turn into a super pet.

As for the breeder.... I was fecking fuming for CB when she called me up, the poor love. If it hadn't been that I would have made things worse I would have called the breeder and told her EXACTLY where she stood!

The owner of "my" local rescue agrees with me and with you all (he's a former breeder from years gone past himself til he saw the light and turned hos breeding kennels into rescue ones, you could say kinda poacher turned gamekeeper). He thinks the breeder is a loon of the first degree and card-carrying twunt too!

As for the fact that the damn woman is going to breed the poor dog again at her next season... well, we know who the utter bitch is don't we folks, and it ain't the ruddy dog!

Sadly a license is only required for breeding if the owner has dogs which produce 5 or more litters a year. This legislation requires that the bitch must not have puppies within 12 months of the last litter, which is of course a decision made on animal welfare grounds. Because (OR UNLESS I CAN FIND OUT DIFFERENTLY!) this breeder isn't breeding 5 or more litters a year there is sod all that appears can be done.

I would ask CB to consider whether she thought there might be any welfare issues when she went to the breeders home though as maybe the woman can be nailed on different grounds. God knows she deserves to be.

cheers vallhala

Alfies new home sounds perfect, im sure he'll love it there, and they have offered to send me pics and updates so I know how he is getting on once he has settled in

So, a happy ending for alfie, YAY!!

only things i can think of vall, is that i remember her saying that her next door neighbour had posted a note through her letterbox saying that they had reported her to the RSPCA, I'm not entirely certain what the issue was, but I think it was the noise from all the dogs ( at this point, she had the mum, a large american bulldog, and the 9 puppies) but that never went anywhere.

Her house seemed clean, there were food and water bowls out for the pups, they were being kept in a crate in the middle room (house is long and narrow, go in front door and you're in the living room, then through to middle room where pups were kept, then through to the kitchen, which is where the stairs to 1st floor are, but i didnt see this) which the mum also slept in with them apparently.

there were 10 pups originally, but one died, apparently the mum squashed it.

Ermmm she was involved in an incident with the american bulldog, apparently she was out walking him with a friend and his dog (cant remember which breed) and the friends dog attacked the bulldog, she stepped in to seperate the dogs and got bitten in the process, i saw the cuts on her arms and face, but the way she described it before i saw them was much worse than they actually were. The bulldog got injured too, and the owner of the other dog apparently ended up in hospital because the dog bit his hand and severed a tendon?

But she thought she could work with the dog to stop his aggression so it was never reported. Dont know if any of that is relevant, just writing down things that have seemed dodgy.

I don't know much about dogs seasons, but dont they have them twice a year, or every 6 months? If so, and she breeds her at her next season, that will be more puppies within 12 months? Dont know how long canine pregnancies are either so could be wrong.

Jesus, 10 pups! Poor dog!

The gap between seasons is indeed about 6 months. Imagine!

The AmBull sounds a problem yet sadly there is probably nothing that can be done about it until its too late. If she is a decent person she'll consult a behaviouralist, chances are she won't though. If there was no complaint by the friend there would be no need to report the incident and little which would (hopefully for the dogs sake) be done nyway if the two were insistant that the pal had only been hurt in trying to seperate the dogs and the AmBull hadn't attacked a human although the crap Dangerous Dogs Act could be used to argue that the dog was a danger to the public, regardless that there is no hard evidence to this effect.

She's looking for trouble with a strong breed like that though if as you say the other dog attacked the AmBull there is no blame to attach to the Ambull. My own big GSD recently was turned on by my mate's bassett cross. My poor wuss didn't know what had hit him, and had done nothing to cause it, I was just throwing a ball for them both and the bassett x flipped at my GSD. Luckily I was right there to pull the bassett x off as my GSD was on the floor, standing no chance, yet an outsider might have viewed it as my GSDs fault and thought him dangerous just because he is the bigger dog and GSDs are feared by some people.

ok. this thread has made me nervous. we're getting a puppy, coming to us after christmas. dh has had dogs throughout his childhood and early adulthood. i haven't owned dogs before. i've been reading like a dervish (as is my wont).

as I understand it, biting and mouthing are v important in a puppy as that is how they learn bite inhibition. i also understand that children are not to be ever unsupervised with a puppy.

my ds is 6. from what i can understand, it is important that he is involved with the (lure and reward) training of the puppy.

can all of you very venerable dog owners give me your advice on how to avoid the kind of conflict that leads to rehoming. not saying you did anything wrong CB, but just want some advice BEFORE we get the puppy.

it is a golden retriever dog puppy. i know one of the dogs from this breeder (who the owneer is very happy with) and that is how I made contact. She is KC registered.

Please give advice on the ultra important work of bite inhibition and training with children. tia.

With our pup when she nips and bites I just shout OW straight away and that is her learning that that is as far as she can bite and then it hurts. She's never bitten so it hurts yet apart from the first time she nipped but since we shouted ow, she's never done it.
I've told DD and DP to do the same and DD just shouts ow as soon as she comes near her! lol. A 2 yr old is not old enough to understand that.
Luckily Tizz is understanding it from us. I also then give her something she can chew on.

thanks lucky. that concurs with what i've read...say ow, withdraw. teach puppy to give things up.

anyone else?

Ow is right. It really does work.

Also, it may help to establish her position in the family - feed the family first, tell her to get off your chair and sit there yourself at an early age etc so she doesn't think she is boss and can get her own way all the time. No need for constantly putting her in her place but just make it clear that you are in charge, as she will need to feel that she can trust you to protect her and that she doesn't need to protect you or herself, if that makes sense... that you are the strong, reliable one.

HTH

tbh i dont think youll have much trouble with a golden retriever - they are fat lazy good natured little pups!

my mate has one. never been one ounce of trouble.

if they do nip then you are meant to mimic the noise the other pups make - a high pitched OW should work if the play gets too rough.

im no expert, my dogs are spaniels. id read as much on the breed as you can - get some doggy books. when i needed advice i rang a doggy psyche i found through our vet. she gave advice for free and then i paid for a couple of training sessions.

sophable, please please dont let my experience get you all worried about getting a lovely pup. I think many posters will agree that my situation is rare. Your DS being that bit older then my DD, i think will make a lot of difference, especially as he will presumably be at school during the weekdays, whereas my DD is at home pretty much all the time.

As far as i know, the OWW and then ignoring is pretty standard advice, and works for most people, but if you have the time to go back through the thread, somewhere along the line, I listed all the techniques I tried.

oh yes training sessions are a must (if you can afford it) it'll make the puppy sociable so you dont have to worry about it becoming aggressive to dogs later in life and it'll help with basic commands.

Don't get a puppy when you have tiny children. Or realise you need to know how to work with it we have had puppies and older dogs from rescue centres It does work.

thanks people. CB i'm so sorry that you and your daughter and the puppy have gone through this. it's horrible.

Not an expert at all, but having just gone through the puppy biting thing, that's exactly what we did. To begin with, a really shrill yelp, like a litter mate would give, and replace your hand with something you don't mind it chewing. Ours is now a bit older, and knows the difference between gentle play mouthing (he gums our older dog's ear while she washes his face in the morning, in manner of child grumbling while mum gets the Licky Tissue out) and nipping - he very, very rarely nips, but if he gets over-excited and tries to nip my fingers, I say No, and put him out of the room for a few moments to calm down. Loss of attention is the ultimate deterrent for him.

Not all puppies have anger management issues, though! If you're getting a dog from a reliable breeder who cares about temperament and health, chances are s/he'll have spent time with the litter getting them used to family life, and will be on hand to offer any advice and support you need. GRs are fab - the teacher at our puppy class brought hers along to demonstrate this week, and he just sat amidst the chaos, looking handsome and affable, like a canine Ben Fogle.

thanks wildfig.

I should add that we don't actually have any DCs yet - and I don't think I'd ever take on a puppy again with a child under about 30. Not sure I'd take on a puppy again, full stop. It's incredibly hard work, compared with the relative ease of settling an older dog into a new routine. Another great reason to rehome - you know pretty much what you're getting already.

There's a couple of things I would do.

Firstly you can do a test with puppies when you are choosing one, to see what kind of pup you have...
If you hold him/her (I'll use "him"!) on his back in your lap and give him eye contact for a few seconds, a dog that:

• struggles constantly/maintains eye contact is one that tends towards dominance/aggression. Can be difficult to train, unpredictable and not great for families.

• lies there limply/won't look at you is possibly too submissive. Can also be hard to train as they can lack confidence to try new behaviours and if very nervous, can become biters.

• struggles momentarily but then gives into you is supposed to be just right! Being mildly submissive is better for families.

Tried it with my Border Terrier and he was slightly on the "struggly" side of the last one. He used to do what I wanted when training him, but sometimes gave a little lip curl when asked to do something a few times.

So the second thing's how I dealt with it. When he curled his lip (he was 4 months btw) I used to place him gently on his back, kneel over him without putting weight on him but restrict any struggle, then again, gently lay my hand over his throat as a dominant dog would, and stroke him and talk until he just lay there calmly. Only had to do it a few times and he got the message, has been good as gold since and is lovely with my children.

Good luck!

Sorry - typed that just after the last freezing cold 'wee, please!' break of the evening, and just before the puppy came back in, and put his huge paws on my knee, wanting a cuddle. Obv, I would now like to retract my previous grumbling post, and say that puppies are lovely.

Christ on a bike. They're dogs. It's like some weird cult about these strange and dangerous animals in a corner. They are DOGS, Just be slightly obvious about the fact they need love, food and exercise,???????

ha, love food and exercise is not enough though sykes!

Agree with Shiny. She is pissed off that she wont be getting her double dunt.

Ignore the text and block her number from your phone.

It is lovely to see how many people have offered help with this (anybody fancy a lab with a penchant for remote controls and childrens slippers )