Am I entitled to my money back for a puppy I can't keep?

[cordonbleugh]

basically, I have a puppy I can't keep, he is 13 weeks old, and has done exeptionally well with training etc, knows quite a few commands already, is very clever etc, apart from one issue - the biting, it's not just normal biting and rough play, but is actually very agressive.

Before you say anything, I have tried EVERYTHING to train him out of this, no techniques work, and when his agression is directed at my 3yo DD, I just cant take the risk that he will grow out of it.

It's not fair on her, DD can't be a normal 3yo, do anything she norally does for fear of getting attacked!

So, the breeder has agreed to have him back, but says she has no money to refund to me!

I'm assuming that she used the money for the sale of the puppies to pay off a large debt, because 8 puppies at £250 each is a lot of money!!

He is not purebred by the way, so he is not kennel club registered or anything like that.

I have asked her to have him back asap, otherwise he will go to dogs trust or somewhere similar, but now she is getting a bit nasty towards me (via text!) about the whole situation.

I made a mistake in getting the puppy and fully admit to that, now i just want him gone before he hurts DD again. I did a LOT of research, and waited months before getting him btw, so it was definately not and impulse decision, it just hasn't worked out

Anyone got any advice?

And a lot of discipline. My dog has huge amounts of collie - he's a mutt really, but so wanted to chase sheep etc. But I run with him off the lead and it took two years but we git there,

Do be careful doing wilf's (pinning) excersise as if you dont do it correctly then there can be problems.
It obviously works for wilf but in some cases if you haven't got the right attitude etc while doing it you can create a dog that then tries to rise up the ranks.

Not sure about the bit on the back though! lol. Our pup wriggles constantly - although not one aggresive streak in her! lol either she's wierd or just not showing it yet

Sykes - our pup is collie cross and she wants to herd the family! lol.

pmsl @ 'like a canine Ben Fogle'

Earlier I spoke of avoiding the RSPCA. I got a stark reminder of why today - a Greyhound cross GSD, aged just 4 years old who is a nice dog. He is also now at risk of PTS at the RSPCA kennels and so we are hoping to find him a home, foster carer or independent rescue place although the RSPCA are not keen on releasing to independent rescue.

He is not the only Lurcher who has had to be rescued from RSPCA kennels recently owing to being on the PTS list.

The vet's fatal needle and bolt guns for shooting 10 GSDs is where your RSPCA donations go folks.

oh the poor thing! I hope someone offers a place for him soon!

The other sad thing though, is the amount of people who don't know the truth about the RSPCA (which included me until recently!)

Sometimes you do find there has been 'one' in a litter that just isnt right ... either take the pup back to breeder or actually discuss with a vet ... this pup will not be different in someone elses home,... might be better to get him assessed by vet and humanly put down if necessary ???????

he will not be put down!! Just because following the incident with my DD, i am not prepared to put the time and effort into turning his behaviour around, doesnt mean somebody else shouldnt give him a chance!!

Blimey! He wont be completely different in someone else home, but there wont be a 3 year old running around in his new home.

Soozeedol, thats an appalling suggestion. I'm just glad that CB accepted my offer of help and that the pup is now going to an experienced owner. There is no call to kill a 13 week old puppy and no decent vet would do so.

On what basis of experience do you say that he won't be different in this home... because whatever it is I can guarantee you that you are WRONG.

he will be different in the same way that in my own home, i smoke, swear, and generally act a bit common........but when i go to my nans house, i transform into a posh, well to do, charming young lady!

I am not suggesting you should have the pup put down ... it was YOU who said that you have tried everything and he is absolutely, definately,very aggressive and everyone who has met him says so .... I am suggesting you have him professionally assessed ... if he is genuinely as bad as you say he is then it follows that it won't therefore matter where he goes and quite frankly you have a duty to NOT pass on a dangerous dog to anyone!!!Jeez and how is this thought process so WRONG exactly .... you don't want the risk so you're going to pass it on .... great, very responsible ... I don't think. Or are you going to tell them they are taking on a nightmare that you can't even bare to look at??

You clearly haven't read the whole thread properly nor have you answered my question. I

The new owner knows the situation fully and has the faith of experienced rescue workers.

hey ho ... guilty me lud ... didn't drag myself thru alot of it ... I was posting from early pages I read thru. I guess it made more sense back then and Im a silly billy !!!!
At that point ... It was a reasonable suggestion and you have to agree that sometimes there is nothing else that can be done.
I'm glad you are trying ... good luck and I hope things work out well ....I'm off to give myself a few slaps on your behalf

lol, you really think ive said " hey, heres my cute little puppy, i cant have him anymore, but why dont you take him? Isnt he lovely?! no problem whatsoever!"

Get real! The new owner knows the full extent of this puppy's problems and needs, and luckily he is in a better position than me to be able to work with him and stamp out his aggression (figuratively speaking of course)

As i said before, just because I am not prepared to do that myself, following the incident with my DD, doesnt mean someone more capable and experienced shouldnt be able to give him a better chance.

"you don't want the risk so you're going to pass it on .... "

Exactly right - I dont want the risk to my 3 year old daughter..........so I'm passing it on to a fully grown adult with a hell of a lot more experience in this sort of behaviour than me, who will turn him around (a process which may take a while) where there are no children around that could possibly be harmed.

I fully believe I am doing the best thing, not only for myself and DD, but also for the puppy.

Im afraid you're about 4 pages too late with your judgyness!

lol i guessed you hadnt read the whole thread properly, but I posted anyway......sorry, i got all defensive again.

As you were ladies!

I don't agree that sometimes there is nothing else which can be done. I am that rescue worker!

I have a firm belief in no kill unless the animal is suffering beyond help, as does the rescue I physically get my hands dirty for. One of their dogs would not ever be safe to be in a family home but he has one for life at the rescue and adores the owner, who is completely secure with the dog. There IS you see, something else which can be done... it just takes a special person to do it and I'm very, very proud to know the couple who run "my" rescue.

Please don't slap yourself too hard... save that for the people who aren't like CB and who throw their unwanted dogs into the street or into a council pound where they will be PTS!

well, im going to bed happy tonight

I'll be on style and beauty tomorrow asking the ever wise MNers to find me a court-appropriate outfit! lol

pleased you have found him a good home!

the breeder sounds awful, just steer well clear. as far as i know she doesnt have a leg to stand on xx

Can I just rewind a bit, please? To the bit where people were advising sophable on her new puppy? There were some elements of the totally disproved dominance myth in what people were saying - it's so wrong, and so dangerous.

Please read this:

here

by a very well respected expert in dog behaviour.

Re the pup, sophable - just look for one that's not right at the back, and not right at the front - you want a nice, middle of the road puppy. Should be fairly confident and outgoing, curious, and interested in you.

You can try rolling them on their backs and all that but tbh that's based on a very extensive psychological profiling system which a) needs to be carried out by an expert in unfamiliar surroundings (to the pup) and scored on 1-10, and b) has been shown not to be a reliable indicator of the pup's adult character.

Good luck

And apologies for hijack,CB

I can see all the "pinning" and "dominance" comments are aimed at me.. So I'll take my 35 years experience living with dogs, ranging through six breeds and a mutt, my work with rescue centres and the fact all my and our family's dogs responded to our way of training and lie down with cats, rabbits and never growl at children and do one shall I?
Everyone's an expert I suppose, even me, if it sounded like I was passing on any half baked theory it was from experience. And to be clear I wouldn't advise someone untrained to try and dominate an aggressive dog.
My dad did actually rescue a GD/GSD ex guard dog from being shot and rehabilitated him in to our family where he was very loving and gentle with me (I now think he was mad btw as he was initially trained to attack but there you go!)
Just wanted to give Sophable some simple advice as she asked for everyone's opinions on picking from a litter.
And BBJ you comment about a pup in the middle equates roughly to what I was saying anyway?
Still say any pup who refused to be put on their back I just wouldn't take home, I'd go for the cheeky, happy but ultimately respectful one. Always worked for us where we had a choice, anyway.

No, it wasn't all aimed at you, Lotster - but dominance theory is genuinely completely disproven and can make the situation so much worse.

Aimed at me too?

The dominance theory works in practice in rescues and for trainers and behaviouralists across the country, regardless that the theory is allegedly disproved by "experts". I can think of no more experienced and knowledgable person than a hands on rescue owner who has spent half their life working 365 days a year, 18 or more hours a day looking after society's canine cast-offs, complete with all their problems.

IMHO the "experts" want to get off their asses, read a few less books, complete a few less dissertations and get out there and do the job in rescue themselves if they know it all.

Open the doors wide A&E and find the suture packs, the "experts" are coming!

Sorry to sound so rude Bella, but I work at the shitty end of rescue, picking up the pieces of man's inhumanity and arrogance, as does "my" rescue and I see what works and what doesn't on a practical level.

Yes, you are being bloody rude, Vallhala.
I've worked at the shitty end of rescue too, fwiw.
Please go direct your aggro at someone more deserving of it than me.

ladies, please...

Sophable I have a dog with an high prey drive.

Doing the 'ow' thing with her just made her excited and bite more.

She is now six months, and does a fair bit of 'love nibbles' (still hurt like hell) which we are discouraging and a few overexcited bites - her favourite flavour is furry so anyone with a wooly jumper or fleece needs to take care! With firm consistency she is improving but I was, at one point, dispairing.

I never let my 5 yr old be alone with her and only let my very sensible 10 yr old play sensibly in the garden with her if I am in the kitchen so can respond quickly.

By sensible games I mean (for our dog, not nec all dogs)NEVER play chase or encourage dog to chase the DC, do not over excite dog but using repeated squeaky excitable voice and rough stroking. Not repeated use of her name, like nagging it becomes background noise.

Bella is your woman on this subject