Returning dog to the breeder

[peetieswie]

I bought a dog for £1000 from a breeder. They'd kept him to show and stud and told me he was well socalised, crate trained, house trained, good with kids.

I really tried for two months. From the beginning he couldn't walk past a dog without lunging and if he ever met one closely he'd attack the neck. I tried walking him in dog parks and with friends dogs. He managed to walk short distances with my elderly dog when walked by two separate people and kept seperate but as soon as we'd stop or sit for a drink or something he'd be lunging again.

He would be let out to toilet and come back in and wee on the sofa or pile of washing. If I went out with him he'd be more reliable so this wasn't a huge issue but was harder than I expected. If I put him in a crate and go into the room next door he'd immediately start to howl.

My guess is he'd been in a kennel environment and not ever socalised in a home environment or with other dogs other than at the kennel. I also wonder why they wanted to sell him. I'm giving him back having not been neutered, not been given a haircut, and I've taught him to sit, stay, turn around, give paw (he knew no commands which surprised me if he's used for shows)

Should I expect any money back? They seem to think I'm just naive and couldn't cope but I'm an experienced dog owner, I just don't have the time and energy to put into a reactive dog when I wasn't made aware that's what I was getting. I feel sad for him as we had some lovely times but it has put me off an adult dog now and we will be looking to get a puppy in a year or two instead.

Thanks for that insight. They told me it was normal and I did do some research and it does seem like a thing breeders do, but possibly younger and earlier. I don't know whether they just haven't ever tried to socialise him in places like dog parks (they have quite a lot of dogs) or he has been fine and it's something about moving to me that has caused these behaviours but I really tried to do everything slowly and calmly and socialise him slowly but he just hasn't been able to meet and sniff one dog without lunging.

He’s missed his socialisation window for those kind of behaviours and is probably fear aggressive in those environments that he can’t cope with. It might not be remediable. You would have thought that if they breed dogs for pet homes and/ or to show they would socialise their puppies appropriately though and not breed from such a young dog. Sounds very iffy.

My dog will never be ok in a pub or a cafe or around young kids but that’s OK I don’t expect it of him and I knew that when we had him. We can work around it as he is fine to be left alone at home.

Sounds like an absolute scam to me. Lied from the outset knowing full well what they were giving you and that he’d probably be returned, all while keeping your money. I actually think you should be given your money back as you were miss sold, however, that feels very unlikely as they’re so dishonest.

I expect he probably will give me some money back but I wanted to see if most people thought I should be saying no to a refund or not as I know some people seem to think it's my fault and I'm an awful person. I expect he will be breeding from him again so will make more money from him long term.

That's fair enough but I was completely honest about my circumstances and he met my kids. So he knew the home the dog was going to and said he would be suitable. Obviously no one can guarantee anything and you can never predict how a dog may react so it's not a black and white situation.

Dog parks are not good, healthy places for dogs. The poor dog is clearly scared and insecure and you are now going to return him to a worse life. If you are an experienced owner you would know you can’t expect an adolescent dog (especially an entire male) to just be ok with cafes, pubs, dog parks no other intense environments, they need careful education and gradual exposure and some dogs may never be happy with these situations as they have not been bred for them.

Fine, you made a mistake but the animal will now suffer more so you need to educate yourself if you are to get another dog, which frankly with 2 small kids doesn’t sound like the best plan anyway.

Poor pup.

I agree. I don't think any amount of training could make him a social dog. At best I could probably get to a point where he ignores other dogs. I was trying to achieve this but the guarding toys and food and snapping was the behaviour that I can't overlook and he was supposed to be a family dog.

Well that's not ture. Dogs can absolutely be in dog parks and cafes and pubs if exposed to those environments from a young age. They should be socialised to meet other dogs and humans of a variety of ages from very young. Obviously a male dog wouldn't be neutered at that point. I find this comment very strange.

He isn't socialised at all, let alone in a home. He's been kept in a shed somewhere and bred then sold. You've been sold a pack of lies am afraid. Did you check the breeders credentials?

For sure take the dog back, please do not risk your children and you but I doubt you'll get money back. Did you get any videos of the aggressive behaviour?

It's not the OP's fault this has happened but agree should not be entire, should be neutered from 4 months. Rescue centres are full of dogs like this that shouldn't be in a family home too and the waiting lists long for a space.

This is the breeders fault, sounds like a backyard one. People should be very very careful who they buy their dogs from. We've always had rescues from the RSPCA and Dogs Trust, where they've been vetted independently and any issues spotted (there were none, lovely dogs).

I would never have a dog neutered at 4 months - that is far too young. They need to mature first - age will depend on the breed.

It bit OTT it would be child neglect if she kept a dog knowing it could attack them. Then the law would get involved and put him down. The kindest thing to do is to return him and ask them to find a home with no young children. Not all dogs get along with children and these homes are meant to advertise that.

You were sold a dog as being suitable for a young family, and he's not, so yes, you should get your money back.

If he's a working type terrier and coped well in a pack environment and at shows, then they may not have realised how tricky he was. Alternatively, he just may have a poor temperament and shoukdn't have been bred from.

For context, he's a really small breed. People just laugh at him when he is aggressive and the bigger danger is the retaliation from the other dog. He's not capable of doing a lot of damage. But that doesn't mean the behaviour isn't aggression. He'd be a lovely dog for an older person, who is happy to walk him round the block where he won't really meet other dogs, and doesn't have children. He clearly can't cope with a family environment and if I kept him I'd have to do short walks, not go to parks at busy times, and not be able to walk him with my elderly dog.

That's in relation to dogs. I am sure he could cause some damage to a child if he snapped and it's the vet that convinced me to give him back to the breeder.

You're getting some very unfair criticism here - of course you can't keep a dog who you can't trust with your kids, the breeder obviously lied to you about the dog's experiences and temperament.

I hope it goes well when you get a puppy, at least you can ensure they are properly socialised, and will be a positive addition to your family.

£1,000! - if I had £1,000 spare I would donate to a rescue centre for all the poor little dogs behind bars all waiting for someone to love them 🥲

Any reasonable breeder should take a dog that they have sold back at any point in its life. Whether that also involves a refund, I don’t know.

It sounds like an inexperienced or incompetent breeder who is being economical with the truth. In this case yes, you are being completely reasonable to return the dog for a refund as it's the only way that breeders will change their behaviour.

I agree that the dog may not have been socialised during the critical window as a puppy. Perhaps though it's poor temperament due to poor breeding. Perhaps you're not the first pet home they've attempted to place him in.
Anyway, I'd ask when to expect your money to be refunded when you drop him off. Do it in a master-of-fact way. There's really no difference in you having had him for two months, different if he was a few months old. If he was worth £1000 two months ago, he's still worth that (or very nearly) today. If they refuse maybe you could do a chargeback through your bank.

For background, I've taken on ex-breeding bitches and failed pets who've gone through several homes before they reached me, and they've become adored members of the family. However I feel you've been duped because the dog's behaviour and what you've been told about their background doesn't fit.

Hopefully you'll be given a refund tomorrow as I believe it's the moral thing to do. Expect to be offered another dog or "pick of the litter next time" so be ready to say "no thank you". Dogs should be bred for health and temperament. Unfortunately there's little evidence that a young puppy from this breeder would be better. Also if it's a crossbreed, be aware they can be quite problematic, some are prone to being neurotic although breeders try to market them as being better than purebred dogs.

It may be worth getting legal advice here or from citizens advice etc on the legal situation. Essentially it's contract law. Hopefully you've some conversations in writing to support your case.

It's between 4 and 6 months, slightly later for large dogs.

It’s a shame you have to return it to the people who clearly did not care for him properly before. Probably left in a crate for long periods. The dogs who are shown at crufts are not always treated kindly.
he’s an unhappy, scared, therefore reactive dog who needs one to one care. Can you not give him to a rescue centre?

That's ridiculous. She's clearly tried quite hard to get a dog whose needs she could meet. This dog is clearly one that is not suitable for a young family, so the responsible thing to do - for everyone, dog included - is for the dog to go back.

Why not sell him on pets 4 homes. You can vet the people buying him and ensure he's going to someone who is older with no young children. It would be a better solution.

Some dogs are just born reactive, so it's not clear that he "wasn't cared for properly". Yes, socialisation is important, but that only does so much.

I'm guessing he's a chihuahua. Those are either super sweet or possessed by demons, no matter what you do.⁸