Horrible experience at vets

[Cottoncandy1983]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to get some people's experience on what I experienced today. My little dog is called mouse and she's 16. She's my world and I love and adore her. For the last few months she's had bouts of constipation and developed a large swelling on her rear end in the last month buts it got bigger in the last few weeks. She's always been very active and still is for her age, she bounds around, loves the garden and is full of life. Anyway I took her on my own today to the vets and they informed me that her swelling is cancer and that I should put her to sleep there and then. Now they never asked me if she had any symptoms or what her quality of life is, they just dropped that horrible bombshell on me while I was already sobbing. I refused as I know my dog and I know she is not at that stage yet by any means. We lost my mum's dog to cancer so I know what the end of life state is like. Has anyone else had this experience with the vets? Xx

I agree with you OP, I think it’s quite shocking the routineness of euthanasia for pets, and I connect it to a general difficulty in normalising ageing, sickness and death in our society. Like ‘end of life’ must be eliminated from view, even though it is a completely natural process that comes to every living thing. Like who decided that the welfare of the animal means they should die rather than go through this natural process?

I expect to be flamed for expressing this as it feels so against the grain in our society but I honestly don’t get it. At the moment we have an ageing pet rat. She seems confused and the vet suspects she may have a mass on the brain. They also suggested putting her to sleep. But she eats, drinks, sleeps, enjoys cuddles. I wouldn’t do that to my ageing relative so why her?

Im so sorry for your lovely wee Mouse and I know whatever she is experiencing will be made better for her with all your love and affection.

It's very sad but the vet was saying your little dog won't have decent quality of life for much longer. They have to give their honest clinical opinion.

Obviously you don't have to PTS straight away but it's not right for them to live in pain without being able to enjoy things.

Vets don't recommend putting animals down for fun, every animal really affects them. They would also get more money for treatment so don't go implying that it's a money maker to put them down. Honestly, I think you should go back to same vet's practice with a friend so they can take in the information more objectively. It's also not uncommon for a large group of practices to share out of hours work so you may have to travel. Do you want your vet doing every third night on call, then working all day?

I know it's sad, your pet is suffering. Trust the vet, they have recognised a painful and catastrophic cancer. They may not have handled your feelings with care, but this is not about you it's about your pet.
You have come on here to get validation for going against the vet's advice...and you are getting it.
But trust me, your pet is suffering and will die a painful death, they are very elderly and very ill. Do the responsibile and kind thing as their owner, you must put your own feelings of grief and loss aside to do this.
I'm so sorry for your loss.

So many people saying you know your own animal. Yes, this is true to an extent but most of us find it impossible to be objective as we are blinded by the love we feel for them. Animals mask their pain extremely well. This is inbuilt as to show they are weak/in pain would make them vulnerable to predators in the wild. There is no way I would put an elderly animal through intensive treatment. The reality is that any treatment for cancer at this stage is highly unlikely to be curative and imo it would be cruel to choose this ordeal for a much loved pet. Putting a painless end to their suffering is the final loving act that you can do for them. You owe them this in recognition of all the years of faithful and unswerving love they have given you.

Why on earth haven’t you taken her before for the bouts of constipation!?
sometimes a vet doesn’t need a biopsy to diagnose a cancerous tumour. They will be reluctant to put an elderly dog through anything like that when it is obviously cancerous and clearly not treatable. You say she’s only had it a month - and then go on to say that it has got worse in the ‘last few weeks’ which leads me to think she’s had it for much longer.
and of course they charge for pain relief! Your vet clearly thinks Mouse needs it and is in pain and no doubt is very aware of wanting to not put her through more.
you know your dog - but you are not a vet and you don’t know all cancers in all dogs because of one experience. You need to listen to your vet for the sake of your dog.

Empathy , kindness and morals helps decide when it is the right time to pts .
Why on earth would anyone leave a creature to go through 'this natural process' of potentially dying in pain , distress , fear , confusion -you get the picture , when we have the choice to let them go peacefully and pain free.
You are shocked at what you describe as the routineness of euthanasia , i'm shocked at your attitude of possibly not choosing this route.
As someone with many years in the vet profession to euthanise is not taken lightly and neither used as a 'convenience' in my experience.

I totally believe you that the decision to euthanise is not taken lightly, and I’m sure it is harrowing for the staff involved. I just see it as akin to the Assisted Dying bill and I don’t support that. Would you also ask why we allow any human to experience fear, pain and confusion, when we could choose to end their life for them?

Im not asking in a goady way, I am genuinely curious. I don’t get why attitudes are different for humans and animals, and I think we would rightly be appalled if our friends started talking about it ‘being time’ to get our mother euthanised because she was confused or suffering. Absolutely our kindness, empathy and morals guide us in how we support humans and animals through that process and of course I don’t want any animal to experience pain, but for me the answer to that is analgesics, not enforced death.

I’m not saying there is never a case for animal euthanasia but I don’t think it should be as readily assumed as it is if we view the sentience of animals being as worthwhile as that of humans.

In response, although there are complex gray areas as there should be i absolutely without a shadow of doubt support the assisted dying bill ,after being present at too many pet pts to even begin to count i know that if we could do that for people at the end of their days who are distressed and in pain that it would be an absolute blessing for them.
Pain relief is not always the answer ,sometimes it simply is just not enough to alleviate suffering and yes i absolutely do ask why we allow people to feel these things when they could be allowed to slip away peacefully just like an animal.
I know what i would want and the vast majority of people in my field feel the same.
The fact that an animal is considered a sentient being strengthens my opinion on why euthanasia is so very important and much needed.

Thank you for your reply. We see the issue differently clearly, for both humans and animals.

You need to take her to a different vets but if it’s Confirmed cancer then I think it’s time to make a decision. At 16 I think it’s pretty selfish to put a dog through an operation and chemo etc. your dog is already suffering with symptoms already that aren’t comfortable for her don’t make her suffer much more.

She should have been taken to the vets months ago or at least when you noticed the swelling. Put the dog before your own emotions.

@Jollyjoy if my quality of life goes kaput, I very much hope my dc will help me via dignitas. Just as my grandad helped many a farm animal when the vet was more than an hour or two away - with a shotgun. We don't let animals suffer as humans are allowed to.

I just want to make it clear that I didn't leave mouse to suffer in pain with her constipation or the swelling or "moaning" that I had to pay for her medication. The next day after the first time she was constipated I gave her glandex powder in her dinner for the fibre and laxapet to help lubricate her gut. I have never and will never leave her to suffer. I've had that little girl since the minute she was born as she was one of my mum's dogs pups. That girl is my world and I would never want her to suffer and as wrong as some people think I am, when I know my little girl has had enough, I will listen to her as I have done for 16 wonderful years of her life. I'm not stupid in thinking that it can't possibly be cancer, I know the probability is very high due to all the factors but my whole point was that the visit just seemed very wrong and rushed. The vet had never seen mouse before, he didn't even examine her fully, no feel of her tummy, listen to heart and lungs, didn't even take her temperature and I'm sure some people will say they don't have to because she's old and they know cancer when they see it but surely he should have asked about symptoms too? Would anyone else accept going to the doctor and be diagnosed without a proper examination and the symptoms?? Or is it just one rule for humans and another for animals particularly elderly ones? I am her voice and I'm the only one to speak for her, who else will. Sometimes professionals do get it wrong.

I agree with you OP, I think it’s quite shocking the routineness of euthanasia for pets, and I connect it to a general difficulty in normalising ageing, sickness and death in our society. Like ‘end of life’ must be eliminated from view, even though it is a completely natural process that comes to every living thing. Like who decided that the welfare of the animal means they should die rather than go through this natural process?

For both humans and animals, quite often this ‘natural process’ involves pain and discomfort that can’t be addressed by palliative measures. We are just kinder to animals than humans.

I had a pet that was euthanised what I believe to be a day too late. Fucking horrific for them, and I will never ever let that occur again, it will always be a day too early rather than a day too late. You try and run the balancing act on the see-saw of quality of life but it is variable and can change quickly, and of course we all want as much time as we can get with our pets but we can’t let them suffer for us.

Wow. Do you think perhaps that you could have put it more kindly?

I’m shocked at your attitude as a ‘veterinary professional’, especially as you’ve never assessed this dog and are making judgements just on what the OP has shared. I’ve worked in animal rescue for many years as a volunteer and been involved in this kind of decision many times. I’m also a specialist clinician working in palliative care. For me, one of the fundamentals of this kind of situation is good communication and kindness. Perhaps you could show a little more understanding. Whilst the situation may well be that the little dog needs to be put to sleep to prevent any more suffering, there are ways of doing this that perhaps help the OP come to terms with it and supporting her too. Perhaps sending the little dog home overnight with some analgesia or arranging time and space urgently for some further discussion and explanation? Telling people that you are ‘shocked by their attitude’ when they are going through hell isn’t going to achieve anything but make them more upset and less able to make the right decision.

I agree with you, HoppingPavlova. Cats and dogs tend to suffer in silence and only complain when they are in serious pain. I've tried to get out of using euthanasia and have only made the animal suffer unnecessarily.

OP I just wanted to send you love and say that I’m so sorry that you are going through this with your little dog. I recently had my own dog, who we loved dearly, put to sleep as she had anal cancer; she was 17. We used a specialist palliative care vet who were kind and gentle at home and gave us the time and support we needed. It was so sad, but also so lovely. A completely different experience from pets who we have previously had put to sleep at the vet practice.
Ignore all of the unkind words about doing the right thing. It’s not helpful at times such as this. You will know in your heart that if she’s suffering, has no quality of life and her symptoms can’t be alleviated then saying goodbye is the right thing to do. You could ask if your vet would prescribe some pain relief or symptom control if appropriate and seek an urgent second opinion about her QOL or look into the option of saying goodbye at home. Whilst the diagnosis probably won’t change, sometimes vets do have different approaches. None of the people here have seen your little dog clinically so they can’t give helpful judgement on the situation and they shouldn’t be trying to do so.
Sending you and your little dog love. I hope that you can reach the right decision and find peace in it. X

I’m with you, @Cottoncandy1983
You don’t take one look at a patient - human OR animal - and condemn them to death.
That seems imprudent and unprofessional.
You know your mouse better than anyone else.
I’m sorry for both your sakes.

Fairly sure tsmainsqueeze was responding to and shocked by, Jollyjoy's comment rather than the OP directly.

I too and pretty shocked that anyone would think its better to let animals 'go through the natural process'... than euthanise before they're suffering. That 'natural process' can take days or weeks, it can involve horrific pain, nausea, anorexia, constipation, soiling themselves, frightening falls, bewildering confusion...

And it is not a simple case of chucking some painkillers down them, we can't routinely render humans pain free and able to live a good quality of functional life... and certainly not without the risk of some awful side effects, and humans can talk to us and tell us where it hurts and help manage their own pain control!

The trouble is you don't know what her symptoms are, you can only see a few signs. As people have pointed out, dogs tend to suffer in silence. A vet who understands the physiology of animals and of animal cancer is more likely to know whether your dog is in pain, confused, stressed etc than you are.

You will know in your heart that if she’s suffering, has no quality of life and her symptoms can’t be alleviated then saying goodbye is the right thing to do

The problem is, not everyone does, or they delude themselves. I’ve seen that first hand with pets of family members. Often, the ‘they are not ready to go yet’ is code for ‘I’m not ready yet’.

With people there is a bit of a safety backstop, if necessary you can tell unaccepting partners/family members what is happening if you can’t bring them around to believing they are part of the decision, no more active treatment etc. Pets don’t have that same safety net, and while often it is not needed, sometimes it definitely is.

Surely a visible swelling thats accelerating and bouts of constipation are causing discomfort to Mouse? Rather silly to suggest otherwise.

But people can still respond kindly and supportively to the OP, even if they feel strongly. This is how people feel well supported and helped to make the right decision. Berating people going through this kind of hell achieves nothing. It makes the situation worse, compounds the upset and makes a decision far more difficult. Anyone who is claiming to be a ‘professional’ should understand this.

I would agree about natural death for pets. However, it often would be reasonable to try to manage pain and other symptoms for a short period, maybe even a day or two, to allow the owner to have some time to consider the advice and come to a conclusion. We were not in the consultation, but being given that news in what seems like a fairly direct way would be a huge shock to anyone. I’m not at all suprised that she feels as she does. Sometimes a holistic view has to be taken to ensure that the right outcome is supported for both the pet and the owner.

Depending on the situation, in humans, we often can now manage pain to a manageable level in a palliative situation.The issue is more that expert palliative care provision is so patchy. I agree about animals, but in a way it’s no different to anticipating the needs of a small child or someone with severe cognitive decline.