Horrible experience at vets

[Cottoncandy1983]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to get some people's experience on what I experienced today. My little dog is called mouse and she's 16. She's my world and I love and adore her. For the last few months she's had bouts of constipation and developed a large swelling on her rear end in the last month buts it got bigger in the last few weeks. She's always been very active and still is for her age, she bounds around, loves the garden and is full of life. Anyway I took her on my own today to the vets and they informed me that her swelling is cancer and that I should put her to sleep there and then. Now they never asked me if she had any symptoms or what her quality of life is, they just dropped that horrible bombshell on me while I was already sobbing. I refused as I know my dog and I know she is not at that stage yet by any means. We lost my mum's dog to cancer so I know what the end of life state is like. Has anyone else had this experience with the vets? Xx

If your dog is 16 and has cancer would you really want to make her suffer?
It's hard and it's a horrible decision. We lost our first cat to cancer when I was young. He seemed happy enough you wouldn't have thought anything was wrong until he started pooing in the house (something he'd never done before). Went to the vet who said it was cancer and it wasn't going to get any better. My dad made the decision to put him to sleep.
You can certainly get a second opinion (or a third) but I assume they won't offer treatment due to your dog's age and the worry about if they'd survive an operation.
This is your dog and only you can decide what's right. .

My gigantic cat got sick - my vet was in another town so I called him and described his symptoms. The vet told me to give the cat some human over the counter medicine and blew me off.
So I looked in our phone book & found a vet- he met us at his clinic. Turns out he was our neighbour.
Anyhow, my cat had cancer too - but that vet kept my cat alive for months until he he told me it was time to let him go.
That vet was and still is a hero.

Find another vet @Cottoncandy1983 and ask them to work with you - you want your baby to live, until he can’t live any more.

I’m sending you love and strength across a continent and and an ocean ❤️

As long as Mouse is enjoying life, let mouse live.
I always do the cheese test with my old decrepit dogs. If they can wolf down a slab of cheese with gusto, they get to live another day.

I'm so sorry you had such bad news. You could also ask for a second opinion or at least a telephone appointment to go over options and what to look out for.

btw - for more expensive medicine needed from the vets we ask for a prescription (which they charge for) and then get it online much cheaper. sorry if you already knew you can do that.

I do feel for you, we have a dog approaching his 17th birthday, and we are well aware that even though he is trundling on now, happy, plays with toys, sleeps a lot, loves his food, is currently 98% continent...

Every day could be his last.

I have to say if he had a visible tumour that was likely to interfere with his arse/willy/eyes/nose/ears/movement... we'd be into 'one smashing last day' territory.

Yes, there are further investigations, there are treatments that can prolong life - but those will also damage quality of life.

Pain meds can cause stomach problems and constipation.
Many cancer meds will cause nausea and stop them eating, which then becomes a battle to address.
Tests are painful, disruptive, stressful, likely to involve being in a strange place away from you, with unfamiliar people.

I do think the vet could have been more diplomatic, however having been on the other side of things in advising people on what to do with their dogs - often people don't hear what you're saying.

So when you kindly tell someone they should give their dog a last great day then book them in for euthanasia, they hear 'we can carry on...' When you tell them that its better to let their dog go now, before they're in significant pain.. they hear 'my dogs not in pain'.

Chances are very high your dog IS in pain - dogs do not show chronic pain all that willingly or easily and many of the symptoms are not things we easily recognise as pain (eg - digging, often a result of stomach/gut pain. Biting paws - joint pain further up they cannot reach etc etc). A dog in their late teens is a dog who already lives with some degree of pain, in the same way a human in their 90s does.

By all means, seek a second opinion on how long and what to expect but please don't subject your lovely dog to a barrage of tests and scans and biopsies and medication. Let them go before they're really suffering, and please... do NOT listen to the old trope 'they'll tell you when they're ready' because its often utter bullshit, many dogs will keep on going because they adore you and don't want you to see them give up, and 'that look' is in my experience, pain, fatigue, discomfort. Give them the gift of letting them go before that.

You ignored the swelling for weeks and are now refusing to listen to the vets advice to stop your pet from suffering. This isn't about you but your poor dog is suffering and needs to be pts.

FFS no vet goes around wanting to kill animals for the money 😡
If it was really just a question of money, they would want to keep your pet alive for as long as possible.
But in reality, vets just want to do their best for the animal. They may not all have the best bedside manner - especially as many of them prefer animals to people - but their intentions don’t change.
And FYI, being part of a corporate isn’t going to have an impact on a vets clinical decisions.

Thanks though, opening threads like this helps me to remember why I left practice and reconfirms that I never want to go back!

I don't think thats entirely fair @tripleginandtonic they're aware of the lump, thats not ignoring it.

I am well aware my oldie has a lump on his elbow, it is not currently interfering with anything, it is not sore, he seems unbothered, its not affecting movement.

He also now has a soft lump in his loose skin under his neck, that one I suspect is more dubious, but again it's not affecting him at present, not sore, its in the skin not the muscle of his neck so its not involved in him swallowing... we'll monitor it.

If anything changes significantly, we'll take him to the vet, but their opinion on his current lumps and bumps is very much 'wait and see' rather than 'investigate and do something'.

I agree with suggestions to get a second opinion. However:

I would also not want Mouse to get to the ‘end of life’ stage either.

My mum and her partner went too far with fheir dog and cat. Both were having a lot of issues with old age and i believe they should have let them go a lot sooner.

I feel for you as the shock and distress can be overwhelming. In your position I would take my beloved per home for another day or two to share some final moments and have her PTS at home so you can more easily cope. Have a good friend with you. Light a candle. The blue cross have an amazing pet bereavement counselling line, it helped me a lot. This is huge, be gentle with hourself.

Do you mean lactulose?

Your vet is being honest & it’s better that than trying to get lots of money off you for treatments that won’t work. It’s great that Mouse doesn’t appear to be in pain right now but for one thing dogs mask pain very well, and also she might start feeling more pain any day.

I can understand it was a shock and maybe the vet should have suggested a second appointment to PTS once you’ve been able to process the bad news and say Goodbye to Mouse in your own way. But I think for the sake of your dogs quality of life, you should really be considering a date in the not too distant future to get her PTS before things get much worse. It sounds like she has had a long & happy life thanks to you.

Sometimes in the veterinary proffesion decisions do have to be made on the spot, quite often actually as in any medical setting.
Although I have empathy for the op these kind of threads always get the anti vet brigades giving their twopeneth.
Of course the owner is considered but ultimately the animal and its well being is our priority.
Social media is a nightmare at times for us as a lot of the general public only see the owners side without knowing very few facts concerning the reality of the animals situation.
The comments always received about a vet after your money aren't worth a reply.
I imagine sadly this little dog has reached its end and needs to go peacefully and with dignity but from my experience of a long career in this field the owner is often the last to know that.

Dogs can be very good at hiding pain and the signs are often subtle. Owners often miss the changes as they are with the dog 24/7, an outside pair of eyes can spot things owners haven't picked up on, plus it's easier to believe that an animal is fine when it isn't from an emotional perspective.

At 16 I wouldn't be considering invasive tests that will be simply prolonging the inevitable. Be kind to your dog, they live in the now, and a now filled with constant pain and discomfort is doing a great disservice to them. I've also euthanised a dog with the same condition, your dog will be uncomfortable at the very least. Vets make more money from keeping animals going with tests and treatments, euthanasia isn't suggested for profit, only for the animal.

My 16y.o cat was fine, apart from bad constipation, took to the vets on a Monday. On the Friday we had her put to sleep. She was completely riddled with lymphoma, everywhere and she'd kept it hidden.

After the tests done on the Thursday, the mask slipped and she had nothing left. She was suffering, so someone came out to the house to put her to sleep. But she was fine on the Monday. I thought she'd live forever the way she was going.

Your dog has a large mass on the rear and bad constipation, plus cancer. I cannot imagine how uncomfortable that is. Your job is to protect them from suffering and give them the ultimate kindness, however much you dont want to. You will never regret doing it a day early, but will always regret doing it a day too late.

I think there are two separate issues. The vet is clearly not very compassionate and I would look for a new vet.

If your dog is 16 with a visible tumour then you know you need to consider what will be coming soon. If your dog can find a new vet to give you a second opinion and treat her with compassion (and you!) when the time comes, this will be helpful.

In January our 14 year old spaniel who had been on medication for a number of years started to decline. We wanted to make the call before it ended in an emergency vet trip and were very lucky we could book the vet to come to us 2 days after the phone call. This meant we could give him a lovely last few days and say goodbye peacefully at home.

Vets very rarely tell you an animal needs to be put to sleep unless it’s pretty much an urgent situation.
If a vet has said this, they have genuine concerns about your animals welfare. A cancerous growth causing constipation in an elderly dog is a sign that the end has come.

Im so sorry OP xx

Never feel loyalty to any vet (unless they genuinely are exceptional), and always get a second opinion if you don't think they are right.

Our 15 year old chihuahua was the same. We were told the same as you at a vets we had gone to and trusted for years, that it was cancer and we should put down right away. Something didnt feel right though, and they refused to do any tests as it would be 'pointless' so we took him somewhere else to check.

He had an impacted bowel. A simple enema and some laxatives sorted it.

He is still here now at 19, a little slow in the mornings but happy, and still running like the wind when he spots a squirrel in our field (we let him off lead now as there is no chance of him catching them).

A couple of things strike me but I say them as someone who trusts their vet implicitly and who doesn't resent their bills, most of which are covered by insurance. I'm a cat rather than a dog person but when our old boy died suddenly and without warning, the vet was marvellous - the practice sent a lovely card - more than the GP did when FIL and father died!

Firstly, the dog is 17, secondly it has been constipated for two months and in the ladt month has developed a large growth on its bottom, thirdly the op had complained about spending £50 on pain relief. Those three things, if I were a vet, would lead me to wonder if the client could afford any tests and would inform my thinking. I might even be a little terse if I though the dog had been suffering too long before visiting the vet.

I'm sorry your dog is unwell op but they are very old in doggy terms, they clearly have a visible tumour and I hope you will contact the vet today for a second conversation about prognosis and the pros and cons of potential options for your dog.

Genuinely, I wish I could swap my vet for my GP. They seem to care and are always polite.

Yes, in a similar situation. I asked to see another vet and we had a further month with our dog before his decline when we knew we had to end his suffering. But that extra month he had a good quality, pain free life, and enabled us to say our goodbyes.

Don't be silly. If vets were only motivated by money, they would be subjecting OP's dog to all sorts of hopeless and expensive treatments. By definition euthanising animals does not make money for vets, because the patient won't be coming back.

I’m so sorry OP, this must have been a massive shock to hear. I would suggest take some time to think about what you’ve been told, and write a list of any questions you have. Once you have the list, give the vet a call and ask if they have time to have a 5/10 min call to discuss the appointment and some follow up questions you have. Once you’ve got your answers, you may feel in a better place to make your decision. I would ask things like in their opinion is Mouse in pain now (the fact they prescribed painkillers suggests yes) and what are the signs you should be looking for to suggest Mouse is in pain, how certain are they that it is cancer without further testing/a biopsy, what treatment options are there and what are the pros/cons to treating at this stage, if you choose to not treat because it’s too risky/Mouse might suffer or die from the treatment itself, what are the symptoms you need to be looking for to be when you say “it’s time”, is there anything they can prescribe to make Mouse’s remaining time with you more comfortable and pain free, etc. it might be they tell you Mouse is in huge pain right now, and to continue as you are would be cruel so you might get a couple of hours to say goodbye - or it might be they say with painkillers and a laxative you might get a couple of good months. But you must be honest with yourself about looking for the symptoms the vet warns you about - it’s a really hard decision to make because you love them SO much (and I’m crying typing this remembering my wonderful cat, Willow, who we had to make this decision for 4 years ago now) but ultimately being a good pet owner is about doing what’s best for them. We are so fortunate that we can legally do this for our beloved pets, unlike humans who sometimes suffer for years.

Give Mouse a big cuddle, and then get thinking about every question you have that will enable you to make the decision without guilt that you could have done something else.

I’m sorry to hear that the delivery of this bad news has upset you, it’s a very difficult thing to deal with. Sounds like a clash of personalities, some people faf and pander around it and some will be more direct. When my horse had to be put down I initially saw someone who gave me pain relief for him and said take time to think about it, on the same day I spoke with someone else who directly told me he will not recover and its more humane to relieve him of discomfort immediately. It was what I needed to hear felt like such a relief to have that straight forward guidance. Taking the emotion out, if this tumour is growing rapidly your dog will end up not being able to go to the toilet, you may mistake this for constipation if this has happened before. The bowel could rupture, this is a very very bad and painful way to go.

It will be her age at 16 she's getting on my friends dog was recently diagnosed with cancer and she got her put to sleep it's harder for older dogs to recover