Should adult Bullying be a criminal offence when it causes someone to take their own life? (Based on a an irl petition) (TW)

[mumofoneAloneandwell]

Imo, ABSOLUTELY.

Prison time should be given to people like this.

Here's a link to the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/debbie-s-law-make-causing-mental-distress-leading-to-suicide-a-criminal-offence?recruiter=1378678293&recruited_by_id=7b61f5d0-63c5-11f0-87db-479adfa32a59&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=starter_onboarding_share_personal&utm_medium=copylink

Please be mindful in your replies 🙏.

I would much rather resources be to protect children from parents and the new partners that harm them, yes sad as the story is adults have choices children do not

Based on your link, I'd say no. I'm sure it's a very sad case. But the link doesn't say what happens. It blames individuals, the police, medical staff, and thehousing association. It brings in disabilities and vulnerable people. It's clearly a complicated case, so a simplistic "these people deserve prison" isn't necessarily the best response.

"Being let down by people that should have helped" shouldn't be a crime. There could be any number of reasons why she didn't get the help she asked for, not all of them malicious or negligent.

Theres no mention on that though of bullying or harassment, more she didnt get the support she needed.

Who'd be prosecuted in her case.

The petition is too ambiguous

I should say that I was on tiktok when I saw the woman's story

Her daughter was saying that she had been bullied by her neighbour and lost herself before taking her own life

It's not clear in my op, apologies

In general though, where corporate or neighbourhood bullying has taken place, i'm for prison time 😞

As awful as bullying is, and adults who bully should know better, I don't agree that bullies should face prison if their victim takes their life. Suicide was ultimately the choice of the person doing it, as harsh as it sounds.

How would you tell beyond a reasonable doubt that the bullying caused the suicide?

I think the issue is more - dealing with anti-social behaviour by neighbours.

I read awful things on MN, but I'm sure there are worse cases going on all the time. It must be utter hell to find yourself persecuted by horrible neighbours in the place you see as your sanctuary.

I'll never forget the story of a bright young woman, and Oxford graduate, who had decided to teach in a touch inner-city school (when she could have had an easier life and earned more). She bought a nice terraced house in a non-gentrified area of London but was bullied and persecuted by her vile neighbours. The police (apparently) could do nothing, and she couldn't sell the house because when people were viewing it was all too obvious that the neighbours were appalling human beings.

She committed suicide as a result.

That's where the law needs to change in my opinion. People who terrorise their neighbours need to be treated much more strictly than they are. It seems it's fine to call you neighbour anything you like and chuck all kinds of things into their garden, yet if you tried that to a random person in the street you'd be accused of hate crimes.

We already have laws against harassment and anti-social behaviour. I don't see what 'causing mental distress' would add.

Surely this should have come under harassment which is already a criminal offence.

So either the police didn’t act correctly or there wasn’t enough evidence which would then mean not enough evidence for bullying either surely.

Or if it fell under general anti social behaviour rather than targeted at one person again we already have laws on it they are just not enforced.

I think it is perverse expecting support from one of the most toxic bullying sites on the internet.

That said I don't think the demand is realistic, and as others have said harassment and anti-social behaviour are already on the statute books. I think the issue is more that it is often not taken seriously enough even when there is ample evidence.

I have not done an internet search but this is quite light on the details.

If the premise is that landlords and letting agencies are not allowed to ask someone who owes rent for money owed, more than once, as it might be distressing, then "no". Fuck that. Lots of people claim stress, anxiety and poor mental health for a whole load of crap.

If someone has a sustained campaign of genuine bullying and abuse then that person is responsible for their actions. It doesn't have anything to do with the letting agency, nor should they be forced to move the victim or the perpetrator.

i saw that story.. and honestly, i think the answer is more needs to be done to appropriately deal with anti-social behaviour from neighbours.

In her case her neighbour should have been charged with Harassment and issued with a Restraining/Non-Molestation order BEFORE she killed herself.

I agree that we do often have already-existing laws to cover many things but the problem seems to be actually applying them!

Some people seem to get away with horrible behaviour.

Someone who persecutes their neighbour in the ways I often read about or hear about should be given a warning, maybe made to attend citizenship classes or be put "on report" like naughty schoolchildren. Then if they continue to bully and threaten they should be evicted. I simply cannot understand why this doesn't happen.

I sometimes feel that if I accidentally drive in a bus lane, the force of the law will descend on me. But you can do disgusting things to others and get away with it - if you happen to live next door to them.

So often we read on MN about awful anti-social neighbours and the poster will say 'The police can't do anything". WHAT??

Thing is what your describing is antisocial behaviour not bullying and that's already a crime. The fact that she didn't get the help she wanted from the police doesn't mean that the police failed her it could be because what she complained about didn't met criminal threshold or she was imagining it.
Also what counts as causing someone to commit suicide by "bullying" i mean is a single poorly judged joke that tips someone over the edge classed as a crime?
What would class as bullying and what about preexisting mh issues?
No you cant legislate to make people nice, kind or just not be arseholes

Yeah, yet another law for the police to deal with.

How many cases of hurt feelings can we expect them to take on?

It's very sad, but for every well intentioned law, there will be some poor officer hounded out of a job for not doing enough to "prevent" the thing the law has made illegal. So we end up with police chasing ghosts just "in case" the thing might happen.

If we had limitless police, maybe give it a go. But when you work through the numbers, we have about one officer for every 2500 people.

There's absolutely no way we should be calling for yet more laws, we have to fix the police first.

I think a young Women whose mind must have been in an absolute turmoil to the point where she thought ending her life is a bit more than hurt feelings.

I’ve always said if someone Unalives them selves due to the actions of others it should be classed as involentary manslaughter

Me too

Most of us have seen work place bullying happening. Some of us have experienced it

Its more than a moment of unkindness, its systemic and isolating and designed to break someone

If the person is neurodivergent, has a learning disability or is a vulnerable adult due to mental illness, then absolutely. For example almost 80% of people with autism have experienced bullying and victimisation. As autistic people are 10 x more likely to take their own lives than the general population, it should be classified not just as a hate crime but manslaughter.

School bullies over the age of 13 should be expelled, and the parents forced to find alternate/private education. If they can't afford to, then send the little b*stards to Borstals.

In the workplace, where there has been a longstanding repeated campaign of harassment, the aggressor(s) should be fined/assets seized to compensate the victim. Having to give up their car or sell their home to pay damages will soon stop the problem.

I'm reminded of the legal case involving the junior civil servant who was driven almost to suicide by Priti Patel - a 50k fine plus the costs of therapy/medical treatment would have wiped the smug smirk off her face.

The UK has one of the highest rates of bullying in Europe, something's got to give.

She was 52 and a mother to atleast 1 adult child so not a young woman

I’ve no doubt that if I understood the details of this case, it would be really distressing to read. There might be a civil case for negligence maybe, or a case of harassment. But imo it’s impossible to tell what causes people to take their own lives in most cases. It’s too complex. I don’t think this would be a workable law.

I know someone who is widowed by suicide and his family are absolutely convinced that she drove him to it (they had a tempestuous relationship and she eventually left him) and regularly post to that effect on social media. She's devastated. No doubt if this became law they'd pursue that too. Is that fair, even if he did do it because the relationship ended? Where's the line then?

I’m very sorry for the woman’s family and friends’ loss but this is a truly terrible idea. Apart from anything else I can’t think of any legislation more likely to increase the rate of suicides as desperate people may see taking their own life and the resulting prosecution as a way of getting back at those they believe have wronged them.

My thoughts too. Some people do take their own life due to relationship breakdowns. There are frequent posts on here from people who have a partner who is threatening suicide because the relationship is breaking down. They get told that suicide is the choice of the person doing it.

Maybe it would need to be provable

Malicious communications, proof of nasty messages sent about the person, proof that they singled out and isolated someone

Similar to the investigation done into someone who is a nonce or who has indecent images on their phones, maybe