To be horrified by C4 programme

[lorisparkle]

So Channel 4 are planning on airing a programme on how to do clicker training on children - basically training a child like a dog.

There is a petition to have the programme cancelled as it is unethical and the premise could be used to groom children to comply to any request through.

www.change.org/p/channel-4-cancel-train-your-baby-like-a-dog

What people will do for their fifteen minutes if fame

Of course training children or trying to in such a way is ridiculous but it gives the trainer and those parents who will use the excuse that they can’t deal with their spited child to be on TV

I can’t get that worked up parents who use this will soon learn it doesn’t work

Find me one thing a change.org petition has changed.

It's empty slacktavism and especially before its even been aired, you are essentially just promoting it for them.

I always joked that children should be trained like dogs. But I had a serious point. If you can teach a dog to sit, stay, come, heel and 'no' through clear straight forward commands, you should be able to teach a baby/toddler the same. A few very simple clear demands to keep them safe. People put hours into training dogs, but rarely think to adopt a similar clear consistent training approach to kids.

I think a lot of people probably do simiar for safety things. We went on holiday to Italy when DS was about 18m, houses in my bit of Italy tend to have stove type fire places.
There was one in the house we stayed and every time he was near it an adult would say 'no, hot!' in a serious voice. Whenever we visited anyone elses house he stayed far away from the stoves.

Similarly random toddlers have come up to me at toddler groups, seen my cup of tea and said 'uh uh' or 'hot!' and then wandered away again.

Dogs stay dogs. Children do not stay children. Dogs can expect to have a human around for essentially their entire lives to tell them what to do, so it makes sense that they are reliant on instructions. Children, even fairly young ones are sometimes expected to use their own judgement to make decisions. Dogs are not, because they are dogs. It's acceptable to leave a dog alone in a house, room, or even a small crate (as long as they are acclimatised to the crate and happy there) if you are unable to supervise them for a while. You cannot shut a child in the playroom while you go out, much less the kitchen.

Also, ABA is not clicker training, and is nothing like dog training. This is linked on the petition but probably lost in the multitude of much more wordy links - worth reading. A statement from a professional dog training association: www.pact-dogs.com/blog_post/pact-official-statement-regarding-channel-4s-upcoming-train-baby-like-dog-programme/

I do think there are some aspects of dog training that work well in child discipline - the concept of incompatible behaviours, rewarding and marking the positive, consistency, recognising and making small steps, controlling the environment, the "training bubble", making sure what you're asking them is clear in "toddler language", understanding what the child needs to behave well. Unfortunately none of these things seem to be what the programme is focusing on meaning it's simply a sensationalist thing probably intended to be controversial - I expect they are delighted there is a petition!

We're just moving this over to our petitions topic.

But all parents "train" their children to respond to aural stimuli, OK, maybe not to "sit" as one clip from the programme did (made me smile ) but most parents will use "STOP" or some other word to halt a child about to do something undesirable. And parents also "train" children to respond to routines, eg a quiet time, bath,story,lights out for bedtime. Training after all is not much more than consistent teaching, and aren't we taught that consistency is the magic key?

As someone upthread said, it is probably more designed to train parents to spot and reward positive behaviour , than teaching them to sit quietly at a kerb or swallow tablets nicely.

I think -might be wrong - it seemed to be aimed at working with "spirited" children whose parents missed the message about teaching social skills early on . If a clicker teaches little Harry and Clemantine not to rip open all the biscuits in a supermarket or rampage through a gastro pub on a busy Sunday lunchtime then click away.

Looks brilliant, I've set it to record 😂 thanks OP

but watching those toddlers being trained like dogs isn’t awful. This can’t be real?

Why is marking good behaviour a bad thing? A clicker is only used so the dog knows when they're performing a desired behaviour - you can just as easily use "yes" or "good boy" or "well done" - all phrases parents are already using to raise their children, no?

I shall start telling random toddlers to sit and drop while waiving biscuits in their direction.🐶

Why did the whole thread get buried in Petitions?

The petition was one post only, the OP was not about it at all?

Oh sorry, it was.