To be horrified by C4 programme

[lorisparkle]

So Channel 4 are planning on airing a programme on how to do clicker training on children - basically training a child like a dog.

There is a petition to have the programme cancelled as it is unethical and the premise could be used to groom children to comply to any request through.

www.change.org/p/channel-4-cancel-train-your-baby-like-a-dog

Dunno, and I don't click on links, but I do know that I laughed like a drain when there were 11ty-billion complaints about Jerry Springer the Opera made BEFORE it aired.

I dunno one of those electric collars which stop yapping seems quite appealling for the boy at this point in the summer holidays...

Joke!!! I wouldn't use one of those collars on a dog so I guess I shpuldn't really use them on a 10 year old even with back chat.

I'm not keen on the premise of this programme, but to be honest, I'm more offended by people who seemingly have so little to occupy their lives with that they start petitioning against a TV show.

One of the more creative claims on the petition website is that this type of rewards-based behaviour management leads to PTSD. I have this condition and can assure you that it certainly doesn't have its roots in me being praised for good behaviour as a child . . .

@RedHatsDoNotSuitMe essentially it's a programme about rewarding children for desirable behaviour. The use of a clicker is what is getting people worked up and I can see it may be a bit degrading in certain circumstances. But whether it's a big over enthuastic "well done! Here's a sweet" from the kids mum or a "click of the clicker. Here's a sweet". The model is exactly the same

There is an aspect about children with special needs but I don't understand that and don't think this programme is about that anyway.

D'youknowwhat, @Standingonceremony, I'll either watch the programme and form my own view, or not bother watching it and not care.

But I'm not going to sign a petition about what Channel 4 might or might not broadcast.

I immediately thought of the episode of bug bang theory where Sheldon conditions penny with chocolate.

My second thought was that ‘this is stupid’. Seriously, even if the programme gets aired can you see parents latching on to clicking their children into good behaviour? I can’t, Because rewarding good behaviour isn’t just done as a reflex reaction, it’s done in conjunction with developing an understanding of why the good behaviour is rewarded. Kids aren’t dogs, they need to understand why the behaviour is good and merits rewarding and a clicker button doesn’t do that.

I couldn’t bring myself to get worked up about this.

How can I form a view without seeing the programme?

Training children like dogs sounds like a great idea to me.

@RedHatsDoNotSuitMe I'm not suggesting you sign (or don't sign) the petition. I couldn't care less.

You said you don't click links and clearly didn't know what it was about but were intetested enoygh to commemt on the post so I just thought I would be nice and explain. I'm sorry if it confused you.

So that reads like fairly standard parenting with the addition of a clicker. The name is somewhat goady but isn’t that always the case.

If only my children were as well-behaved as our clicker-trained dog.... I'll be tuning in for sure.

Meh, it's a premise for a silly show looking for ratings. Parents have been 'training' kids for years with the lure of milky bar buttons and the suchlike. I'm pretty sure you could click away at a toddler in full blown meltdown and your hand would drop off before they responded. I don't see how it would open up grooming anymore than any other form of it.

I don't like censorship generally and quite honestly without seeing the actual programme I would be very reluctant to complain about it.

Besides such a method is actually less about training the child (or dog) than it is about training the parent (or owner) to focus on good behaviour rather than focusing on bad behaviour.

This thinking has actually been around for a long time, this sounds like simply a gimmick to illustrate the method.

DEFINITELY not buying the grooming, PTSD bollocks - those are MUCH more complex issues!

I find the suggestion of clicker training very disturbing. It’s inappropriate for children.

Children have to learn to regulate their own behaviour and make decisions.

Parents can use rewards and praise to manage behaviour, but this would be part of other approaches as a child gets older. For example older children can be reasoned with or given options. It’s how they grow and develop.

Conditioned responses elicited by a clicker won’t support a child’s behaviour long term. One the adult stops using it, they child will stop the response.

It would take away normal developmental opportunities.

I find it very scary. If successful will raise a generation of automatons. Can only hope that children will not fall for this and the methodology will fail.

AllesAusLiebe - the PTSD is found in autistic people who were subjected to clicker training as part of the ABA model - some forms of ABA have been more, er, robust than others and could well have led to PTSD in some autistic adults.

Are you autistic yourself? Did you undergo ABA? if not, then really you're not in the group of people discussed.

There is an aspect about children with special needs but I don't understand that and don't think this programme is about that anyway

I have a 35 year old daughter with special needs, non-verbal and severely limited understanding. Doubly incontinent and hyperactive.

It would take her less than half an hour ro figure out that the clicky thing is completely ignorable. Well, I say half an hour. I actually mean not at all.

No. No. Just no.
No clicker training for human children.
No.
Children learn their values from us, their parents.

It might perhaps be easy for me to say that because I'm a nice and good and kind person so my children have learned that from me.

I've not had an easy ride because one of my children has quite severe special needs, so we are not exactly a normal family. Nobody in the house slept for more than 3 hours at a time because of the hyperactivity of our SN daughter. I seriously doubt that clicking a clicker at her would have encouraged her to go to sleep.

We had to make sure our NT daughter was not disturbed by her sister because she had to have a night's sleep and go to school etc.
So they could not share a room, not even an adjacent room because our SN child kicked up a rumpus all night.

I think I went about 30 years on 2 hours sleep a night.
She's in supported living now she's 35. And worrying about her still keeps me awake. What pisses me off greatly is that now she's not actually in the house, I still lay awake worrying about her.

Anyway, bells or whistles or clickers. Nope.
That's for dogs. Not your children.

I have to admit that I just had a laugh at the idea of clicker training kids. However perhaps it does have a place in children with special needs?

I think that you either need to watch the show with an open non judgemental mind or not watch it at all. There are some parents out there with children who have special needs and have tried everything to help their children learn to behave correctly. If this gives them another option then good luck to them.

Alles nobody said your PTSD had it's roots in this sort of training. What a bizarre thing to say. PTSD has many causes.

As a secondary school teacher, I’m all for it.

In all fairness as an adult if someone was prepared to 'condition me' to a clicker with a cup of tea and a biscuit as a reward I'd be pretty susceptible to be honest. On the other hand my DC as toddlers would mostly have kicked off due to it being; the 'wrong' type of biscuit, the biscuit being a biscuit, or the fact that I'd offer them the biscuit. I'm amazed that so many people have actually signed that petition. It's all a bit Brass Eye style public outcry 🙄

My sil says she feels she treats her four year old son like a dog...long walks feed him more long walks. Tbh if you not seen the program how can you judge. Very strange thing to sign up too.

I click my fingers to get my sons attention it's not exactly training him just irritating him long enough to distract him from fortnite and focus on me

Christ... I thought we had evolved beyond this. Training "compliant" children by stuffing food in their gobs is grim. Shocking that parents would go through with this on television. I can only assume they are a bit dim and haven't read a single thing on child development. Poor kids.