To be horrified by C4 programme

[lorisparkle]

So Channel 4 are planning on airing a programme on how to do clicker training on children - basically training a child like a dog.

There is a petition to have the programme cancelled as it is unethical and the premise could be used to groom children to comply to any request through.

www.change.org/p/channel-4-cancel-train-your-baby-like-a-dog

does it have an ABA element here? maybe?(bloody hope not)

and i read it...... yep

MoreFrog
I hear you same here .
Still open to watching it.

Sounds like a great idea!

A clicker?
It would take more than a blooming clicker in this house.
I'd want an electric cattle prod at least.

Sounds good to me and why isn't this in 'Petitions'

I bet half the people who object to this haven’t got a clue how clicker training in dogs actually works .

I can’t object to something like this, that I haven’t assessed for myself...

Besides; young kids and animals aren’t completely dissimilar..... plenty of fresh air and exercise, good quality food at regular intervals, structure and routine, plenty of affection and clear boundaries.

There's so many links to petitions recently - they have to be in the petitions section and are not allowed in the main forums.

I once heard a wonderful speech by a man (whose name escapes me) who used a clicker with his severally disabled daughter and believes it was an incredibly effective communication tool. It allowed him to form a bond and communicate with her when other methods were failing. In doing so it enabled her to learn to do things that enhanced her quality of life, such as walking.

In dogs all the clicker really is a quicker and more precise "well done". Anything you can do with a clicker you can do with your own voice but the clicker is sometimes an easier way to do it. In the case above I think it was also an easier stimulus for the little girl to process. However in most children I would question why you would use a clicker - in dogs you mostly use it to train precise movements when you need to start by rewarding the tiniest increment of the right thing - eg a slight turn of the head that you can encourage and build on into a full spin.

I cannot think of why you would want that in children? I may be missing something though.

Click and reward.

And repeat.

Honestly, so many children and adults will benefit from this. It's not easy though. I tried with one of my dogs and gave up after a couple of days. Or did the clicker break?

Anyone know when it's going to be on so that I can set Sky to record it?

Thanks.

I would also be interested in watching this now. I'm sick to death of keyboard warriors trying to stifle freedom of speech.
A world where we can only see, watch, learn about things that have been approved by the hysterical masses will cause far more complicated problems in our children than clicker training ever could.

C4 keeps its own programmes on More4 catch-uo for a v long time so that might work if Sky don't have it, SuperS

As for OP: how can people come to a view about this clicking thing unless they can access comment and information? Unless it is going to be depraved or manipulative, I don't see the point in censoring it. I am of the Jonathon Pie school of thought on free speech.

Granted a C4 programme may not be the most balanced and indepth analysis, but most people won't read properly-designed peer-reviewed research and many won't have the skills to interpret it if they did. That includes me - i have no recollection what a bloomin chi square test actually does and don't even remember the names of the other gizmos.

What will they think of next, children on leads? Oh, wait, there are reins for children... (this one's always hotly debated on MN!)

It reminds me of teachers saying "If you can't do as you're told here, then go to one of those do-as-you-like schools" (they sounded great!).

As for the TV programme - it's bound to be mostly about the person presenting it, with the clicker thrown in as an aside, but that's another debate.

I've not seen it like everyone else on this thread but it sounds like what they are "training" (in parents) is clear boundaries and rewarding good behaviour, which sounds just fine. I'm not sure the actual clicker is either here or there. And yes, as a PP said, my current 2 year old and (now passed, sadly) Boxer dog need roughly the same routine and approach to discipline. Though the dog was less into bananas.

I think there are worse TV shows out there for social conditioning.

ABA training is pretty controversial in the autism world. Its quite a step to use it generally.

I don't see how it's any different to "bribing" kids with chocolate buttons when they display desirable behaviours, or saying "well done".
Certainly not the worst reward/punishment system out there. I would rather see a parent using a clicker than smacking their child.

Why do people get all up-in-arms about a TV show that hasn't even aired yet?

Hahaha! Clicker training? That’s brilliant! The dogs I know are miles better behaved than the children I know so perhaps they’re on to something!

I'm not in favour of censorship in anything other than pretty extreme cases, and I can't see any reason to censor this programme. I suspect C4 regard that petition as a major bonus in terms of free publicity.

I did wonder if they started the petition themselves

I’ve just watched the trailer through the link - absolutely outrageous to think that children should be trained like dogs. Before I watched I thought it might be a variation of it or something not quite as bad, but watching those toddlers being trained like dogs isn’t awful. This can’t be real?

A clicker is only to mark desired behaviour - it's no different to saying "good boy" or "well done". The important bit is to reward the behaviour - wether that's praise or a treat or whatever.
Positive reinforcement, either on a dog or child, is hardly barbaric 🙄