To ask you to sign our letter to Girlguiding UK?

[AgnesBadenPowell]

IMPORTANT! Deadline 9pm Thursday

We (me and the awesome team at Fair Play For Women and some others) will be publishing an open letter to Girlguiding in a national newspaper this Sunday. We set out the safeguarding concerns with their trans policy that allows a male child who identifies as a girl to share sleeping, dressing and washing facilities with girls, and that parents are not allowed to know. We also highlight that Females who identify as boys are expected to leave, disproportionately impacting lesbian girls.

We are now asking for our supporters to sign the open letter. I obviously need your name - you can PM me with your name, and indicate whether you are a parent, Leader, former member, grandparent, aunty, concerned member of the public etc. OR you can complete the online form here:

fairplayforwomen.com/add-your-name/

We can’t publish the full text of the letter but all the issues are summarised in this factsheet and can be seen in more detail this report.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/FPFWGirlguidess_factsheet.pdf

https://fairplayforwomen.com/guide-leaders-call-for-halt/

Spread the word and the link and lets get as many signatures as possible. Girlguiding has made a big misstep with this policy. As a Leader, I don't do this lightly. It's not my intention to embarrass Girlguiding but they MUST listen to our concerns about this policy - concerns shared by legal and child protection experts as well as parents and leaders.

You can read about the Girlguiding policy question here (and click through to the specific guidance on residentials): www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

Girlguiding's most recent statement on this issue can be read here: www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/news/coverage-of-equality-diversity-policy/

Done and put that I'm a leader 😀

Are we allowed to know which newspaper (or even which paper it isn't?) or does that need to stay under wraps?

@ChoccyJules sorry, can't say yet under orders from the editor. It's a respected paper. For similar reasons I can't publish the full text here either but if you read the Fair Play For Women factsheet, which sets out our position and the letter will make the same points.

Looking forward to seeing it in print

Oh my goodness.

Signed. I'm a leader with sons (Leader before having children). The practicalities of meeting the safeguarding criteria impacts on our family life and my participation in residental activities because I frequently can't bring them with me. Those rules are there with good reason.

We are now at the stage where DS1 has classmates in the pack. His presence in the periphery of the unit is not a problem to anyone at present but that could change in a few years as his classmates begin to approach puberty. I respect Girlguiding as a single sex organisation.

I find it hypocritical that if my sons were to say the words "I identify as a girl" that would change completely, that they become full members rather than tolerated as "child of leader", that they could then share a tent or dormitory with the other girls/ classmates.

There is either a safeguarding/ single sex issue because they have XY genes and male genitalia or none at all. "Feeling like a girl" makes no practical differences to any risk, particularly as at the age range they are at gender is very much a superficial pink/ blue, football/ dancing, unicorns/ monsters distinction. The numbers of children liking things "of the opposite gender" who will permanently have gender dysphoria are tiny compared to those who have passing phases.

I would rather see the policy the other way round so that females who feel masculine are the ones supported. The beauty and uniqueness of Girlguiding as a single sex organisation is that it empowers females. Turning away those with XX genes because they feel masculine is at odds with the girls can attitiude of the organisation.

@UrgentScurryfunge you've summed it up perfectly. This policy makes a mockery of other policies around separating Male children of leaders during residentials - no matter how young they are, or how inconvenient it is.

Either it's acceptable to have male and female children sharing, or it isn't.

Signed

Signed.

The safeguarding policy is a joke.
For example, a family member is taking her guide unit to an international large scale guide camp in the Uk this summer.
Here are the rules for the male children of leaders:

But any trans girls (natal boys) can camp with the girls, sharing tents, showers, toilets ....

This again

No . I can’t face these threads . I actually am starting to pity these trans guides . Poor kids

How do you know if girls in your unit are trans?

Just to say thank you to AgnesBadenPowell and all concerned in highlighting this issue and for their work for future generations.

Here is girl guiding policy:

Now don't misunderstand me: I love Girlguiding- I have been part of the movement for over 50 years.
There have been many changes in that time, uniform, promise, program- we are up to date, do everything the Scouts do and more. The provision of a safe girl only space has been and should continue to be of vital importance to the movement and this change in policy will change this forever.
Boys who are confused about their gender are welcomed but girls who are non binary or feel they are transgender will be encouraged to leave.

Are you the same lot who've been banned from posting on the official GG forums? You're beginning to sound desperate and unhinged.

@stopfuckingshoutingatme: I pity the poor girls who will be managed out of Guiding and the girls in guiding who are having their safe space taken away.

@stopfuckingshoutingatme I also feel sorry for girls who are transitioning. They effectively being managed out of an organisation that exists purely to support females, however the identify.

No . I can’t face these threads . I actually am starting to pity these trans guides

So why on earth did you read, let alone post...?

Are you one of those people that shouts at the tv rather than simply turn it off?

(For the record it's the biologically female trans guides I feel sorry for as they're the ones who'll be asked to leave. The only trans guides GGUK will accept will by definition be new joiners.)

The suspensions have now been lifted. Because we've done nothing wrong.

It's not unhinged to want to maintain a single sex safe space for all females who have chosen to join a single sex organisation. It's certainly not unhinged to expect GG to follow basic safeguarding practice and tell parents (in a general sense, not identifying any one individual) that their daughters will be sharing accommodation and washing/changing facilities on residentials.

Surely if I am a girl identifying as a boy, the last place I’d want to be is GIRLGuides?

What are the rules on girls identifying as boys joining Scouts?

It’s always a stupid idea to post in these threads as opinions are so strongly felt

And yes I can see that for a girl entering puberty having to share a tent with someone they see as a boy would be unpleasant . Unless they knew the child and were sympathetic which is possible .

But I also read of suicides , self harm and the horrendous time that trans children have . It’s a fucking horrible cross to have to bear and for that reason these threads really upset me

I do have some reservations about the new policy, so asked my dd (who is a guide) what she thought.

She wasn't aware of any trans policy, but when I explained it she couldn't see the problem. Her attitude is that the numbers of boys identifying as female and wanting to join guides are going to be very very small and that boys like that are not the kind who pose a threat to girls.

It would be interesting to know how other guides feel.

But I also read of suicides , self harm and the horrendous time that trans children

Do you not think biological girls self harm, attempt suicide and have a horrendous time, largely due to pressures society places on them for being female? Wouldn't they benefit hugely from a female only space?