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Original poster

To ask you to sign our letter to Girlguiding UK?

233 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 11/04/2018 19:10

IMPORTANT! Deadline 9pm Thursday

We (me and the awesome team at Fair Play For Women and some others) will be publishing an open letter to Girlguiding in a national newspaper this Sunday. We set out the safeguarding concerns with their trans policy that allows a male child who identifies as a girl to share sleeping, dressing and washing facilities with girls, and that parents are not allowed to know. We also highlight that Females who identify as boys are expected to leave, disproportionately impacting lesbian girls.

We are now asking for our supporters to sign the open letter. I obviously need your name - you can PM me with your name, and indicate whether you are a parent, Leader, former member, grandparent, aunty, concerned member of the public etc. OR you can complete the online form here:

fairplayforwomen.com/add-your-name/

We can’t publish the full text of the letter but all the issues are summarised in this factsheet and can be seen in more detail this report.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/FPFWGirlguidess_factsheet.pdf

https://fairplayforwomen.com/guide-leaders-call-for-halt/

Spread the word and the link and lets get as many signatures as possible. Girlguiding has made a big misstep with this policy. As a Leader, I don't do this lightly. It's not my intention to embarrass Girlguiding but they MUST listen to our concerns about this policy - concerns shared by legal and child protection experts as well as parents and leaders.

You can read about the Girlguiding policy question here (and click through to the specific guidance on residentials): www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

Girlguiding's most recent statement on this issue can be read here: www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/news/coverage-of-equality-diversity-policy/

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 11/04/2018 23:04

interesting that her first insticnt was to be inclusive, until she knew how inclusive and the details. I suspect that there would be a range of responses.

It is a difficult time during puberty. Sometimes one only comes to term swith your body many years later. (ironically when it is saggier and wrinklier)

dontlikebeards · 11/04/2018 23:06

Signed

GrimDamnFanjo · 11/04/2018 23:09

GGA needs to stay single sex.

NoSquirrels · 11/04/2018 23:12

It needs to make its mind up what it is, if it wants to continue being a single sex female only association, IT CANNOT include males. That's the top and bottom of it.

As a female only association, it cannot ask females who are transgender to leave, that's the law. That'd be like saying, we are for females, but not black females, or muslim females, same applies to transgender FEMALES (transboys).

I have signed on this basis. I must admit, I am worried about signing, I am. I have been made fearful by this "debate".

But I am reassured it is name only, you can use just an initial instead of full first name, you do not have to indicate where you live. In that sense it is actually much less identifying than the gov petition details (which I have also signed, of course, and which is so nearly at 10,000 now: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118)

I am very grateful to the OP for having the courage of her convictions. I feel that GG is actually a crucial moment for me in this.

Caucho · 11/04/2018 23:18

The problem is the policy not to inform parents about trans girls (read male). This is understandable in many respects as no one wants to be singled out. The upshot is however that from now on you can’t be guaranteed that if you send your girl to girl guides it will mean that it won’t necessarily be only girls

Caucho · 11/04/2018 23:20

Can’t wait for the first girl guide pregnancy. It sounds hysterical and is obviously at the extreme end of the range but once there are thousands of instances it is bound to happen at some point then you will be accused of being shrill

Caucho · 11/04/2018 23:23

Didn’t that women who pretended to be a man and had sex with a woman using a dildo under cover (how I don’t know!) get a prison sentance for rape or something? Do the new laws still allow people to be prosecuted for this?

HabituallyOptimistic · 11/04/2018 23:29

But I also read of suicides , self harm and the horrendous time that trans children have

^^
Let's not forget the girls who identify as boys that are being excluded from GG. What about their risk of suicide and self harm? Trans is not just a male -> fem issue.

R0wantrees · 11/04/2018 23:46

signed

Skarossinkplunger · 11/04/2018 23:48

No thanks.

AlpacaLypse · 11/04/2018 23:48

Signed.

Glug44 · 11/04/2018 23:57

Girls can join the scouts. Why can’t boys, whether they eventually want to be girls or not, join the guides?

Original poster
AgnesBadenPowell · 12/04/2018 00:12

Girls and Scouts are completely separate organisations. Scouts was boys only (except Venture Scouts) until the early 1990s when it had a leadership and membership numbers crisis - it had to become mixed to carry on.

Interestingly, GG is still the bigger organisation by about 30,000 despite being girls only.

GG have considered becoming mixed sex but the consensus from members is that they want it to stay female only (there's Ben regular consultations). This is the Girlguiding UK stance on its female only membership criteria (unless you're a gender non confirming Girl, of course Hmm)

Girlguiding is a single-sex organisation in accordance with the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. Girlguiding believes that the needs of girls and young women are best met through an organisation catering specifically for girls and led by women.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 12/04/2018 00:17

Signed and tweeted.

It would have been good to have the exact wording of the letter but I trust you based on the arguments that have been put forward on the links provided.

Noqonterf · 12/04/2018 00:22

Signed

UpstartCrow · 12/04/2018 00:29

Signed and shared.
Girls who identify as boys are told to leave. Boys who identify as girls can share a tent with them, and their parents cannot be told.
It excludes girls from several cultures.

Boys who identify as girls can join the Scouts.

BlackeyedSusan · 12/04/2018 00:29

I remember the discussion about scouts going mixed. I could not remember the reason why though.

Mamaryllis · 12/04/2018 04:14

Total membership crisis was the only reason scouts went mixed sex. They couldn't recruit enough leaders, so needed mums/ women to step up and volunteer. And it's just taking the piss to rely on females to run units and not allow females to join. So, women saved the scouts.

I have no issues with scouts (I've also been a scout leader) but as an organization, it does not cater for those girls who are less able to cast off the chains of gender (by which I mean those who are easily dictated to by boys/ males). Scouts is very good for girls who want to compete against boys to prove their worth (I kick arse, btw).

There are important social and cultural reasons for GGUK to remain single-sex.

For me, as Agnes said so eloquently upthread - this is an organised that has an unparalleled record of challenging and fighting against damaging gender stereotypes. And now it want to base policy on them.

No, no, no, a thousand times no.

Signed.

LiviaWithGarfield · 12/04/2018 04:34

Signed

antiAlias · 12/04/2018 05:50

cariadlet

That's why it's lucky we've got all these people protesting on their behalf, telling them what to think and do and remind them just how dangerous boys and men are ...

FencingFightingTorture35 · 12/04/2018 08:02

I went to an all girls boarding school for 2 years at 13. It was a mixed experience but I really valued being away from boys as someone who'd experienced some minor traumas at the hands of men. It was wonderful having a safe space to talk periods, sex, how our bodies were changing, boyfriends. It really made a difference to be able to talk openly about these things. I'd have hated to have a boy in that space. We wouldn't have shared half as much amongst ourselves.

I'm also appalled that trans boys will be pushed out of Guides. It's nonsensical

2cats2many · 12/04/2018 08:05

Done

kittensinmydinner1 · 12/04/2018 08:34

Done

beyondBeyondLivid · 12/04/2018 08:34

I think it's frightening and telling that so many are signing a letter they haven't or can't read.

Does the paper know that this is the case? Will it be made known when or if the letter is published that the signatories didn't have the opportunity or intelligence to read the letter before adding their name?

It seems incredibly unethical and immoral to me.

Signing something you haven't read is a wonderful metaphor for this 'debate'.