to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

It doesn't matter if they are telling the truth about how they feel. It doesn't change their sex. And consent is MY human right which I do not want erased thank you.

@homeTIRF

So you don’t think it’s even worth the conversation?

You don’t think opportunistic sex offenders will take advantage?

You don’t think women’s voices should be heard at all in this?

Your post says you haven’t read the petition, you haven’t read the thread, you completely dismiss women’s concerns because they don’t tally with your experiences.

THIS ISN’T ABOUT TRANS PEOPLE!

Amy Desir has been in all the papers and on national TV discussing this 'issue', which has dominated headlines for the past two years - despite the fact that trans people are already allowed to access single sex services and use the toilets and changing rooms that correspond with their gender, and have been (legally) for 8 years.

The whole thing is a joke. Outright hatred and bigotry masquerading as 'concern for women and girls'.

It disgusts me.

Signed

AccidentalKylie Those trans people (i.e. transsexuals) who have been using single sex facilities for years are not the problem. Trans people is not just a new PC name for transsexuals. It is an umbrella term which includes transvestites and men who decide they're women every other Saturday afternoon. Is it really outright hatred and bigotry to want to keep sex segregated spaces clear of male transvestites and part-time women?

A transgender person with a GRC is rightly protected from discrimination and able to use facilities designated for their recognised gender. That is how it is and how it should be.

This petition is not challenging that. It is questioning why there has not been a debate about moving from the current position to Self ID. People have concerns about what exactly are the risks of Self ID, are there unintended consequences that could have a negative impact on other minority or vulnerable groups. Who has done the impact assessment and consulted the potentially affected groups so a balance of rights can be considered.

It's not the same as the fight for gay rights/against clause 28.

This is not people fighting for their rights - this is people imposing a new gender ideology on everyone. Gender will replace "biological sex" in law - and this will threaten women's rights.

Women are oppressed in society because of their biological sex - not their gender. And what's worse is that transwomen are claiming that they are the oppressed ones. We women now have "cis-privilege" apparently - we are being named as the oppressor of transwomen.

Women are being named the oppressor of born biological men, men who have been raised and socialised male. And it shows. Women are being silenced, abused, shouted down, harassed, and even punched. The biological men who identify as women are shouting louder, and being listened to.

Signed, with pleasure.

Every time I read one of the numerous anti-trans threads around at the moment I'm reminded of how bigots in the 80s used to talk about gay people

SELF.I.D.IS.NOT.ABOUT.MALES.WHO.LIVE.FULL.TIME.AS.WOMEN.

full time transwomen are saying this. Are THEY transphobic??

@homeTIRF I think the majority of trans people are telling the truth about how they feel.

But I don’t understand what the problem with the law is that self ID will alleviate.

It will “de medicalise” the process.

Why is that necessary? No one answers that.

Because I genuinely think the whole thing is transphobic as fuck, whether you say it is or not.

You think a petition that asks for women’s voices to be taken into account - on either side of the debate - is transphobic? You think free speech is transphobic? The democratic process is transphobic?

I am not transphobic.

I wish there was a petition for all these fucking boring TERFs to have their own separate spaces to fart on about absolute fictions forever.

I'd sign that in a heartbeat.

It's beyond dull at this point.

@AccidentalKylie
I wish there was a petition for all these fucking boring TERFs to have their own separate spaces to fart on about absolute fiction forever

Leave the female-only spaces alone and we’ll stay quietly in our box

So do something else, Accidental. Somewhere else.

I don't believe that trans people are lying about their feelings

So does that mean that you DO believe the full time transpeople who are deeply worried about the GRA and how current TRAs dont represent them??

TRAs and GRA supporters have been attacking trans people left right and centre, particularly the transvestites and transexuals and fetishists who are not allowed to say they exist!!

Hard, when there about 9 transphobic threads an hour on here. Lily Madigan can't brush her hair without someone wanting to debate it. Conspiracy theorists and zoomers.

Interesting post, Terftastic. As gender is merely a cultural concept framed by local social expectations and varies hugely depending on geographical location, how can it be recognised in law when it doesn't actually exist as an objective reality? Not to mention that the gender we see now was totally different 5 years ago and will be different again in another 5. Would there be legal recognition of other cultural expressions of gender too?

@twofalls

"It's about refuges, healthcare, sports, women's shortlist's, education. Changing rooms is used as just one example but it's about much more than that. "

And none of those will exist in a publicly funded form soon.

All this TERF stuff is fighting to preserve your own cabin (fair enough) while the ship is sinking.

We need to unite and save what's left of vital services - not fight over possession of the scraps that will be left.

@neon - All still reasons to sign the petition and all have a debate.

AccidentalKylie

Perhaps you would like to listen to Lucy Massoud, who was on Radio 4's Today programme yesterday.

It is on IPlayer at 2.38.40 secs
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09vyvxk

Lucy is:

Black
A lesbian
A Fighter Fighter
A Trade Union Officer

So yeah, a really "fucking, boring Terf" - think you missed out "Pearl-clutching there....

Neon you are still missing the point. This petition is about including women in the consultation about a change to law that effects women. It's as simple as that.

You mention Terf. Are the trans women who are concerned about this and have signed the petition Terfs?

Because I am sick to fucking death of transphobia and I don't want any part of it. Neither do I want to in any way support a movement whose response to being disagreed with is routinely dismissive, rude, patronising and accusatory. I got bored of being told by self appointed experts that I disagreed with them simply because I didn't understand years ago.

No idea, but this is not a debate we need to have right now,

Glitterati how about prisons. Predator self identifies as a woman, gets locked up with women. That will be the law. Sports, half decent runner but not elite, self ID as a woman, wins an Olympic medal. Crime figures will be affected because men who rape who say they are women. Your daughters girl guide leader could beca predatory male identifying as a woman. You want to complain the law will not be in your side.

The prison issue - well being locked up with a predatory man is possible - (anything is possible) - but you would know he was a man. Everyone would know he's a man and make a decision about whether they feel comfortable around him or not. It's common sense. A female prisoner may not feel comfortable in a cell with a group of aggressive predatory lesbian women. You can't segregate lesbian women in a prison because a tiny minority may potentially be predatory. That would be ridiculous.

In sports, yes, a man could potentially win a medal. Again it would be obvious he was a man and consequently his medal would not taken seriously by the vast majority.

As for a predatory male identifying as a woman to become a guide leader, well it's possible, but again, ridiculous and easily identifiable. This kind of situation is far more visible (and therefore less of a risk) than a predatory gay man (claiming to be straight) who could become a scout leader, teacher, sports coach, mentor - anything. Impossible to spot and a situation that has always persisted within all "male spaces."