OK I let this go a few times but dd1 has come home AGAIN with a sheet entitled "five LESS sheet"

[harpsichordcarrier]

e.g. can you draw five LESS balloons? five LESS pies?

now I think there is a song to go along with this, wherein the word less is called upon to rhyme with "can you GUESS?" but still there is no excuse for it, is there?

Ack. That would annoy me. I always correct dp on the less / fewer thing (which I'm sure doesn't annoy him in the slightest ).

I would have thought it was pretty basic stuff tbh.
I managed to cope with
two less
three less
and even
four less
but this is Going Too Far

to be fair though, there is nothing relevant that rhymes with fewer. It must be tricky.

manure
sewer

ummmm

it's one of the reasons I shop in Waitrose - 5 items or fewer check outs

blue-er
or should that be more blue

I had heard that this was now accepted usage

Not in this house, although I have to admit that dd (4) is somewhat confused...

accepted where exactly?
not in pedants' corner

this is ridiculous, they should all know by now, there was such a fuss about the till signs a few years ago!

fewer -- numbers
less -- quantity or mass

fewer than five metres is two or three or four metres
less than five metres can be anything under five metres

HS you are quite right, will you say something

Yes I think they want the children to learn the concept of 'less' as in take away/subtract. it may not be correct Englishwise but Mathwise its part of the vocab they have to learn.

We learnt about 'difference' the other day. I was baffled.

An English teacher told me Harpsi. I suppose I have to bow to their superior knowledge

But I don't think I would say fewer than 5 metres.

TFM I am training to be an English teacher

Thank God!

Education's in the sewer
And schools are in manure
If teachers will not comprehend
That less does not mean fewer.

The English teacher was plain wrong. And "oh, this is maths" is no excuse either. They'd notice if you tried to say 2 + 2 = 5, wouldn't they? This is just as basic an error.

no i quite agree madonna it was just an example.. of the difference between numbers and quantity

that would be crazy talk

janni

I've just completed a linguistics module with the OU and have had to confront my pedantic views on the misuse of English. In a nutshell, language evolves and if something is used incorrectly enough it will become correct. It's a sad fact that people who have a fantastic grasp of English grammar are no longer able to hog the high horse.

Yes, we all know language evolves but at the moment there is a useful distinction between less and fewer. Anyone who confused them is wrong. Sheesh, you wouldn't excuse mistakes in arithmetic by saying hey, maths evolves, once upon a time people used to count one, two, many...

I have thought of a rhyme...

Girls and boys, we have to say fewer,
Or harpsichordcarrier will poke teacher with a skewer.

Was this a maths sheet?

I thought less was a version of take away? For example 5 less 2 = 3.

Or have I misunderstood - again?!

Yes, it was a maths sheet.
but if you write "can you draw five less harpsichords?" that is just wrong WRONG WRONG

mercy, it is, but that isn't how the sheet was using it. it asked for 5 less balloons, not 5 balloons less 3.

but (whispers) much as it grates mildly with me too, it is rapidly becoming acceptable usage and fewer will seem hopelessley old fashioned not long from now, you know..

it should be five fewer balloons it definitely should absolutely

we are not going mad they are

Acceptable to whom, pray tell?