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Pedants' corner

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask where this stupid phrase has come from?

365 replies

Bluesheep8 · 24/10/2021 09:43

"Swap out"
Why the addition of the word 'out' ?
I was in a restaurant last week and heard someone say "can I swap out the chips for new potatoes?"
The word swap says all that's needed surely? It just makes no sense Confused

OP posts:
WhiskyXray · 25/10/2021 11:01

"tested to" should be "treated to"

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 25/10/2021 11:02

There are some sanctimonious bores posting on here.

There are some phrases I don’t like - that’s a matter of personal taste and opinion.

YouJustFoldItIn · 25/10/2021 11:10

Not sure why you're accusing me of lying.

I am not accusing you of lying.

I am making the point that 'reach out' is still a modern day Americanism regardless of any tenuous evidence of it being used in 6th century Old Norse, or anything else. Unless of course Americans have been using it for centuries too, which it appears they haven't - or no-one would be going to the bother of writing whole articles on its sudden wide emergence as an idiomatic expression.

Whether or not it is a 'total neologism' seems beside the point. If no-one in living memory can say they ever heard the idiom being used regularly in the English language (American or otherwise) until a handful of years ago and that when they heard it it was from the lips of Americans or through the writing of Americans then that is new enough and American enough for most people.

Whether certain features of American English are rooted in archaic English (much like Canadians with French as a first language speak a version that is rooted in archaic French) is also beside the point.

I am certainly not arguing that British English is 'right' and American English is 'wrong.' But the fact is that we in the UK haven't been using certain archaic words (for example the recently ubiquitous 'gotten') for centuries and if we are starting to use them again now, it's not because of Shakespeare or Chaucer or Old Norse or the modern day Icelandic descendents of Norsemen, or anybody else - it's because of Americans. Now. In this century.

As much as the contextual history you add is fascinating, to insist that the influence of contemporary American culture is not the reason these affectations are are seeping into British English now just comes across as needlessly pedantic and nit-picky.

KimMumsnet · 25/10/2021 11:35

Morning, all. Hope you don't mind but in a moment we're swapping this thread out from AIBU into Pedants' Corner.

Wroxie · 25/10/2021 11:36

@WhiskyXray

Wroxie, is kindness really such a sticking point with you? In two posts you have called me a "complete dick" and implied I need psychological intervention.Smile

You are actually missing my whole point. You acknowledge that this phrase gets a lot of people's backs up. It's not the best idea to use it, then, is it, unless you don't care about the effect you're having on your reader?

As I said, write how you like. I only read fiction as a rule so I'm unlikely to be tested to your corporate prose, so we're all good.Wine

I can be kind and I can clearly be completely aggro as well- but I tend to take the side of the person just trying to get by and to write an email that gets their point across so they can go on to the next shitty thing they have to do, over you, the person who wants to hit them with a (metaphorical, I hope) sledgehammer for not catering to your whims about a clear and common phrase that makes perfect sense in the context it's used.
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 25/10/2021 13:27

@KimMumsnet

Morning, all. Hope you don't mind but in a moment we're swapping this thread out from AIBU into Pedants' Corner.
Yes I do mind - you are very inconsistent about which threads you move away from sight in AIBU - not that my opinion counts for anything of course.
ErrolTheDragon · 25/10/2021 14:14

They move a lot of pedantry/use of language threads to Pedants' corner.
This particular thread isn't really being treated as an 'AIBU' anyway.
(Was the OP unreasonable to ask the question? No. Is she right that it's a stupid phrase - depends on the context. Chips v spuds stupid. Working memory on computer/hardware components - not stupid).

WomanStanleyWoman · 25/10/2021 14:36

@KimMumsnet

Morning, all. Hope you don't mind but in a moment we're swapping this thread out from AIBU into Pedants' Corner.
Why?
MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 25/10/2021 15:13

I agree why move it?Confused

Bluesheep8 · 25/10/2021 15:42

Morning, all. Hope you don't mind but in a moment we're swapping this thread out from AIBU into Pedants' Corner.

Why? And which thread in Pedants Corner is it being swapped for?

OP posts:
WhiskyXray · 25/10/2021 15:59

I sink MNHQ make joke. Ha ha.

DagenhamRoundhouse · 25/10/2021 17:48

And, infuriating:

Fill OUT a form instead of IN
Saying 'So' all the time
And don't get me started on 'Like' !

SapereAude · 25/10/2021 17:52

@DagenhamRoundhouse

And, infuriating:

Fill OUT a form instead of IN
Saying 'So' all the time
And don't get me started on 'Like' !

I looked those up yesterday, as I hadn't much thought about the difference- apparently, "fill out" means to totally complete every answer/box etc, while "fill in" means "complete the relevant bits".
riceuten · 25/10/2021 17:57

I used it in IT in the 1990s - probably came from the 90s US!

simiisme · 25/10/2021 18:04

@Mycatismadeofstringcheese

Reach out
Grin
Lovely13 · 25/10/2021 18:07

My current irritation is ‘we reached out to...’ rather asked or contacted. Assume it’s American English. But just sounds odd and melodramatic. Do love the Four Tops Reach Out song, though.

simiisme · 25/10/2021 18:07

Lots of these don't bother me.
I hate 'gifting'.
Another one that grates is, 'Are you joking me?'
Choose: 'Are you joking?'/'Are you kidding me?'

petelacey · 25/10/2021 18:21

It's an american phrase. The reasoning goes like this. If you want to sound more technical always use more words. We all know what we mean when we 'swap' something. If you need to swap a component then it obviously needs the old one to come out. Americans don't do common sense, so we have 'swap out'.

Ontopofthesunset · 25/10/2021 18:26

I think the issue with the use of 'reach out' is that it is now being used very widely as a simple synonym for 'contact'. But to me it suggests a much greater rift is being crossed - maybe you are contacting a person who has not spoken to you for 30 years or someone who is threatening to pull out of a contract because of a misunderstanding. In those circumstances, you might need to 'reach out' as you would be making a particular effort to alleviate something.

I'm not intellectually against language change at all, but I can't help the fact that certain usages grate like notes out of key, because of the language that I have learned and internalised. 'Excited for' instead of 'excited about' is one. In the variety of English I speak, those two prepositions make the phrase mean quite different things and so it simply doesn't make sense to substitute 'for' for 'about'.

Bangolads · 25/10/2021 18:28

With respect language has always evolved. There are rules for obvious reasons however slang and colloquialisms have always made their way into mainstream language. If you’re really aware of language and how it works and how it has evolved you wouldn’t be posting this. I have to say the fact that your so bothered is more worrying from where I’m sitting.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/10/2021 18:29

@riceuten

I used it in IT in the 1990s - probably came from the 90s US!
Earlier than that. According to this, the 1960s - presumably from DEC, an American company but possibly the British Ferranti. The first computers I used when I started work in1985 were DEC VMS (virtual memory system!), we knew about swapping out and swapping in.
DeborahAnnabel · 25/10/2021 18:30

I use so many of these. I used to use “reach out” ironically but not any more.
Play date is another Americanism but we use here all the time now.

One Americanism that bothers me is “I wish I would have” rather than “I wish I had.” Grammatically I don’t think it’s correct. And I don’t think it’s colloquial.
Personally, I never mind colloquialisms which are technically grammatically incorrect. For example in Ireland “I’m after naming her Georgina!” (Anyone get the reference??!) means “I have named her Georgina” but it’s speaking in the vernacular rather than anything else.

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 25/10/2021 18:33

@petelacey

It's an american phrase. The reasoning goes like this. If you want to sound more technical always use more words. We all know what we mean when we 'swap' something. If you need to swap a component then it obviously needs the old one to come out. Americans don't do common sense, so we have 'swap out'.
But on that reasoning you would then need to 'swap in' the new component. Swap covers both in and out. (but not in a sexual connotation, of course!)
Bluesheep8 · 25/10/2021 18:44

If you’re really aware of language and how it works and how it has evolved you wouldn’t be posting this. I have to say the fact that your so bothered is more worrying from where I’m sitting.

I'll admit I'm not an expert on language and how it evolved. That's why I'm questioning something that sounds ridiculous to me.
People who are experts on language would also be bothered about the correct use of your and you're, I would imagine.

OP posts:
SapereAude · 25/10/2021 18:46

@Bluesheep8

If you’re really aware of language and how it works and how it has evolved you wouldn’t be posting this. I have to say the fact that your so bothered is more worrying from where I’m sitting.

I'll admit I'm not an expert on language and how it evolved. That's why I'm questioning something that sounds ridiculous to me.
People who are experts on language would also be bothered about the correct use of your and you're, I would imagine.

They wouldn't be as unpleasant as to point it out though.