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Pedants' corner
Original poster

Saying haitch.

338 replies

Chunkymenrock · 12/09/2021 19:46

I almost never hear anyone saying aitch anymore. It's so infuriating! There is no such word as haitch. Am I alone in feeling so irritated? 😕

OP posts:
Quickchangeartiste · 14/09/2021 21:06

@Geamhradh sorry, I was pissed off by further up thread where Scottish poster were insisting it was haitch in Scotland.like we have one accent in Scotland …it’s like I can’t be Scottish unless I pronounce it haitch.
And I may have been tardy in posting that 😳
So I don’t care how anyone else says it, just don’t tell me how I say it without hearing me say it.

mathanxiety · 15/09/2021 02:13

So, the thinking is if we can’t look down on people who say haitch any more, what’s happened to our place in the world.

Yes, and hence all the holding of noses at 'American' imports too, and the people who have embraced them - baby showers, Hallowe'en, and proms for instance...

RubySlippers123 · 15/09/2021 06:22

@MindyStClaire

Color is a correct spelling. As is colour.

TWO things can actually both be equally correct. I know. Mind blowing.

Color is the US spelling. It's not correct English.

We are talking about the English language, in which the correct pronunciation of "H" is aitch.

Yes there are different dialects & accents around the world. But the English pronunciation is the original way to say it.

Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 06:40

"Color is the US spelling. It's not correct English.

We are talking about the English language, in which the correct pronunciation of "H" is aitch.

Yes there are different dialects & accents around the world. But the English pronunciation is the original way to say it."

Don't they speak and use English in the US?
How, after 9 pages, when people who actually know what they are talking about, can you actually demonstrate such linguistic ignorance?

Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 06:40

*with

IllegibleSquiggles · 15/09/2021 06:55

Never mind @RubySlippers123, who has some kind of bee in her bonnet. She was equally clenched in outrage on the ‘Glastonbury vs friend’s wedding’ thread.

Doggiedementia · 15/09/2021 07:13

@mathanxiety

So, the thinking is if we can’t look down on people who say haitch any more, what’s happened to our place in the world.

Yes, and hence all the holding of noses at 'American' imports too, and the people who have embraced them - baby showers, Hallowe'en, and proms for instance...

Halloween isn’t an American import in the part of Ireland where I am it’s been around centuries
Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 07:16

I think Mathanxiety is being sarcastic. Smile
But, for the benefit of the more literal, it's probably best to clarify.

CallMeNutribullet · 15/09/2021 07:24

West of Scotland Catholic here and we were taught Haitch in school (no nuns).

TheBraveLittleTailor · 15/09/2021 07:44

@Geamhradh
I’m the more literal.
Are proms and baby showers also of Irish origin? It is best to clarify.

RubySlippers123 · 15/09/2021 08:06

Don't they speak and use English in the US?

@Geamhradh no.

Have you all noticed the section this has been posted in?

IllegibleSquiggles · 15/09/2021 08:13

@RubySlippers123

Don't they speak and use English in the US?

@Geamhradh no.

Have you all noticed the section this has been posted in?

Yes, I’m a regular. Why do you think it being in Pedants’ Corner somehow legitimises your ridiculous, prejudiced grandstanding? Did you confuse PC with some kind of linguistic EDL?
TheBraveLittleTailor · 15/09/2021 08:19

@mathanxiety
You mean people think American imports threaten English people’s place in the world in the same way that imports to RP of lower socioeconomic pronunciations threaten RP speakers place?
Yes, I see

TheBraveLittleTailor · 15/09/2021 08:21

Apologies to all pedants for the missing apostrophe!

Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 08:29

@RubySlippers123

Don't they speak and use English in the US?

@Geamhradh no.

Have you all noticed the section this has been posted in?

They don't speak English in the US? Okay. I've been posting in this section since we asked for it to be created back in the mid-noughties, as a place to discuss interesting language quirks. Back in the day, most of the posters in this section were professional linguists, but, as you can see, the demographic has widened, which is, of course, lovely Sometimes.
bonbonours · 15/09/2021 08:29

Yeah I don't like it, and especially the fact that my kids teachers in infant school said so then my kids came home saying it!

Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 08:31

@bonbonours

Yeah I don't like it, and especially the fact that my kids teachers in infant school said so then my kids came home saying it!
Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like the modern misuse, or even lack of, correct punctuation and grammar. How about you?
TheBraveLittleTailor · 15/09/2021 08:45

Oh and I know parts of England kept Halloween continuously as well as Scotland and Ireland, just in case that’s an issue.

MindyStClaire · 15/09/2021 09:42

I'm actually a bit embarrassed for you @RubySlippers123. They do speak English in the US (among other languages of course). It might be different to the version of English you speak, but it's still English.

Perhaps dialect is easier for me to grasp having grown up in Ireland - there are a number of distinct Irish dialects (I'm talking about the Irish language here) that are very different. I'm not a native speaker in any of them and I'll never understand more than a tiny bit of what someone says when speaking Ulster Irish, but that doesn't mean I don't understand it's just as valid as the dialects I do understand. Perhaps the similarity of English dialects makes that harder to grasp.

MindyStClaire · 15/09/2021 09:43

But the English pronunciation is the original way to say it.

Thought it was pretty well established that the original letter was hache, and the H was dropped because French influence was seen as higher class.

Cutabove · 15/09/2021 09:48

@RubySlippers123

Don't they speak and use English in the US?

@Geamhradh no.

Have you all noticed the section this has been posted in?

What do they speak then, Klingon?

Do the native Spanish speakers on Latin Ammerica not speak Spanish because it's different than what they speak in Spain?

LizzieAnt · 15/09/2021 10:07

Speaking of legitimate variants (and missing apostrophes), is it acceptable to spell Halloween as such, or should it still be Hallowe'en? I see that both forms have been used upthread and I'd have considered both correct, though obviously Hallowe'en is older. However, DS was corrected for omitting this apostrophe in school recently, so I'm just a bit curious about the preferred spelling now.

Sorry to digress Smile

Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 10:20

@LizzieAnt

Speaking of legitimate variants (and missing apostrophes), is it acceptable to spell Halloween as such, or should it still be Hallowe'en? I see that both forms have been used upthread and I'd have considered both correct, though obviously Hallowe'en is older. However, DS was corrected for omitting this apostrophe in school recently, so I'm just a bit curious about the preferred spelling now.

Sorry to digress Smile

Both are accepted. Or should be. The apostrophe started to disappear from writing in the word as early as the 18th century apparently. (I didn't know that, I just looked it up)
OchonAgusOchonOh · 15/09/2021 10:24

@LizzieAnt

Speaking of legitimate variants (and missing apostrophes), is it acceptable to spell Halloween as such, or should it still be Hallowe'en? I see that both forms have been used upthread and I'd have considered both correct, though obviously Hallowe'en is older. However, DS was corrected for omitting this apostrophe in school recently, so I'm just a bit curious about the preferred spelling now.

Sorry to digress Smile

It's always been spelt Halloween in Ireland as long as I remember. I think Hallowe'en is a bit notiony but it is presumably an older version and is a contraction of All Hallows Even.

However, the correct spelling of the original festival is Samhain as All Hallows Even is a religious festival that definitely doesn't include most of the activities associated with halloween these days so maybe your ds could correct the teacher Grin

LizzieAnt · 15/09/2021 10:49

@Geamhradh
@OchonAgusOchonOh

Thank you both very much. It's a digital spelling programme they use (Irish I think?) so can't blame the teacherSmile Glad to hear I wasn't wrong in thinking an apostrophe-free Halloween was okay. Samhain is used quite a bit in school too you'll be happy to hear Ochon Grin