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Pedants' corner
Original poster

Saying haitch.

338 replies

Chunkymenrock · 12/09/2021 19:46

I almost never hear anyone saying aitch anymore. It's so infuriating! There is no such word as haitch. Am I alone in feeling so irritated? 😕

OP posts:
Anoisagusaris · 14/09/2021 16:21

@AnnieSnap sorry, that second paragraph wasn’t directed at you, it’s a general MN ‘you!!

MindyStClaire · 14/09/2021 16:24

Color is a correct spelling. As is colour.

TWO things can actually both be equally correct. I know. Mind blowing.

JaneJeffer · 14/09/2021 16:25

It’s Aitch in Ireland or anywhere else.
Why are people not accepting, despite the fact they have been told over and over by Irish people, that it is Haitch in Ireland?

AmItheonlyonehere · 14/09/2021 16:40

@LapinR0se same here.
I saw someone comment on a photo on Facebook recently tagging her sister "I sore this and thought of you"
Obviously she meant "saw" not "sore" but in her (English) accent it sounds like an R sound and so that's what she writes.
It makes me crazy when I see things like that. Draws instead of drawers etc.
I wouldn't start a thread about it though. It's just her accent.
We're all different and that's actually ok.

AmItheonlyonehere · 14/09/2021 16:41

@MindyStClaire Yes!! We should!!

Anoisagusaris · 14/09/2021 16:47

I suppose it’s just one of the drawbacks of a colonial history that the pesky natives refuse to speak the Queen’s English.

AnnieSnap · 14/09/2021 16:48

[quote Anoisagusaris]@AnnieSnap

I’m fully Irish, from a family of school teachers and it’s haitch.

After being on a thread this week about some English people admitting they can’t pronounce the ‘r’ in iron, I don’t think you can look down on the Irish or others for (correctly) using haitch.[/quote]
I don’t look down on the Irish. I consider myself Irish. I was taught by my Irish family that it is Aitch. We can disagree, but please don’t imply that I’m a bigot.

Anoisagusaris · 14/09/2021 16:51

@AnnieSnap see my immediately after that one .

AhNowTed · 14/09/2021 16:52

@AnnieSnap you imply that one parent is Irish and you were brought up outside of Ireland.

I am Irish from Ireland and once again for the umpteenth time we say Haitch.

Anoisagusaris · 14/09/2021 16:52

My post I mean!!

MindyStClaire · 14/09/2021 16:52

Yes I'm sure some Irish people do say Aitch but it's definitely not the norm at all.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 14/09/2021 18:36

@MindyStClaire - Yes I'm sure some Irish people do say Aitch but it's definitely not the norm at all.

Yes it is. Except maybe in south dublin, which tends to have a more anglicised accent.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 14/09/2021 18:37

@MindyStClaire - Yes I'm sure some Irish people do say Aitch but it's definitely not the norm at all.

Yes it is. Except maybe in south dublin, which tends to have a more anglicised accent.

Ignore all that. I misread Aitch as Haitch. Time to go to spec savers....

SeriouslyISuppose · 14/09/2021 18:51

[quote Anoisagusaris]@AnnieSnap

I’m fully Irish, from a family of school teachers and it’s haitch.

After being on a thread this week about some English people admitting they can’t pronounce the ‘r’ in iron, I don’t think you can look down on the Irish or others for (correctly) using haitch.[/quote]
Yes, I’ve noticed this, though I didn’t see the thread. Also sixth’ as ‘sickth’, which doesn’t even have anything to do with a rhotic r. I’ve never encountered Irish people having any difficulty pronouncing all sounds in ‘sixth’.

MindyStClaire · 14/09/2021 18:52

I'm as South county Dublin as they come and I'm haitch all the way Grin

AhNowTed · 14/09/2021 19:03

@MindyStClaire

I'm as South county Dublin as they come and I'm haitch all the way Grin

I'll see your south county Dublin, and raise you north county Dublin prod with an English mother 😂

Definitely Haitch.

Quickchangeartiste · 14/09/2021 19:08

Ok this is seriously pissing me off. I am Scottish and it’s ‘aitch’ not haitch where I live.

JaneJeffer · 14/09/2021 19:15

@Quickchangeartiste

Ok this is seriously pissing me off. I am Scottish and it’s ‘aitch’ not haitch where I live.
What's pissing you off? The anti-Irish sentiment or something else?
Sakura7 · 14/09/2021 19:35

I’m 1/2 Irish, a family of school teachers. It’s Aitch in Ireland or anywhere else. Being commonly mispronounced does not make it a cultural issue!

The arrogance is astounding.

It has been explained to you over and over again that 'haitch' is the correct usage in Ireland. It's quite offensive to imply that a whole nation is in the wrong because they don't use language in the exact same way that you do.

I'm Irish (born and bred) and I don't know anyone who uses 'aitch'.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/09/2021 19:44

I'm Irish (born and bred) and I don't know anyone who uses 'aitch'.

My DM says it sometimes when she's booking something on the phone and using her Very Special Telephone Voice.

She is from the Northside too, but she has always had notions

AhNowTed · 14/09/2021 19:52

"notions" 😀

She's not the only one.

Geamhradh · 14/09/2021 20:01

@Quickchangeartiste

Ok this is seriously pissing me off. I am Scottish and it’s ‘aitch’ not haitch where I live.
It's "aitch" where I am too. But I know enough about linguistics to know that "haitch" is fine and I know enough about sectarianism to know that aitch/haitch are, as has been said, shibboleths .

Let's try this.

You know how the vast majority of Scottish people have a rhotic accent?
I'm from Nottingham and I don't.
I'd be a complete arse if I tried to say the Scottish rhotic accent was wrong, or pissed me off, wouldn't I?

Belleager · 14/09/2021 20:11

[quote TheBraveLittleTailor]@Belleager
“ So if people think haitch is right, it seems as if the pedantic aitchers are themselves dropping the aspirate, and that's worse than any other irregular pronunciation because of the class implications?”
I think on top of this, there’s always more derision for hypercorrections like the aitch in ‘ardly hever’ than just dropping aitches. It’s the schadenfreude of seeing people trying and failing to rise above their station.
So, the thinking is if we can’t look down on people who say haitch any more, what’s happened to our place in the world.[/quote]
Yes, I think you're right there.

It's worth saying too that the whole pronouncing / not pronouncing h business isn't a class marker in Ireland. I don't know of any Irish dialects / sociolects where h isn't pronounced regularly. So there's no hypercorrection around h either. It's just not on people's radar as a pitfall or problem of language. We consume enough British media to know it's a marker there, but no-one is bothered about h sounds in Ireland.

So if Irish people were presented with "aitch" as standard, they'd have no problems saying it - there's no struggle or hang-up or anxiety around the sound here. But our standard is Haitch, and it's correct.

NotAnotherPylon · 14/09/2021 20:19

I'm from NI. Mum, Catholic upbringing, says haitch. Dad, Protestant upbringing, said aitch. In the words of Father Jack, 'That would be an ecumenical matter'GrinGrin

OK, not strictly accurate, but I love an excuse to quote Father Jack. Arse!

Oh, and I say aitch, for what it's worth, but other pronunciations are available.

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