Dd23, limited life, not blossoming, worried she may be depressed

[luceygoosey]

Apologies that this may be very long, but I don’t want to drip feed.
My DD23 graduated from a Russell Group university last summer with a 1st in History and German. She’s always had great grades throughout school and university; she worked hard in academics and we’re very proud of her achievements. She lived independently at university and even studied abroad in a major German city for a year. She’s also travelled solo in Europe too. I’ve never been particularly worried about her before save for some issues with anxiety which I’ve always done my best to help with.
Dd has always had a very independent personality, and is also shy and reserved. That’s fine, but what’s worrying me now is that it’s tipping over into her being withdrawn and a loner. Since graduating she just seems to be drifting in life and not participating. She’s moved back home with us in a commuter northern town and is still here a year later. She’s considerate in that she cooks and cleans, but I don’t make her pay any rent as I want her to be able to save, and she does do shopping for us. She doesn’t take the piss in any way, in fact she’s very peaceful to live with as she never has anybody round!
She has a 9-5 job in customer services and takes the bus there as she doesn’t drive. She’s never wanted to learn to drive and is in fact quite fearful around cars; she doesn’t like to be on the motorway etc. Her siblings drive but she is content not to drive, and I suppose this isn’t really a problem as she is always punctual to work.
However, her job is low paying and irrelevant to her degree; she’s just advising people on the phone all day. After work she comes home and stays in her room all night. On the weekends she’s in pyjamas all day watching Netflix. All of her childhood friends have moved away bar one, and her university friends live in different cities across the country. She does occasionally meet up with the one friend, but the friend is in a relationship and DD says she will soon be moving away with her boyfriend. It upsets me to think DD doesn’t really have any friends to hang out with. I suppose I don’t know if she FaceTimes or texts friends much, but she doesn’t have many updates on friends when I enquire about what her friends are up to. If DH and I have people round she just stays upstairs in her room.
Her isolation has been especially noticeable lately because her siblings DD19 and DS20 are home from university and are always hanging out with friends, making plans. They do all get on as siblings which I suppose is a plus. And it’s okay if she’s not like her siblings; they are all different people with good qualities and DH and I have always tried our best to treat them equally.
DD has always been quite closed off and reserved; she was a shy child and never had an interest in extra curricular activities or a hobby except a German club in high school. She hated things like drama and sport and teachers would comment that she was a clever girl but very anxious about her grades, behaving well, and mostly keeping herself to herself. Despite being academic she never had any leadership positions at school and wouldn’t apply to be a library prefect in Year 11 even though she was heavily encouraged by us and by many teachers. At university she did blossom a little but has always been reserved and academic, not doing much else except study. That’s fine, I accept her personality as it is, but I can’t help but feel that she is lonely. To my knowledge she has never been in a relationship and I can honestly say I’m not even sure of her sexuality! I’d be fine if she was gay or straight or anything else, but she’s just never opened up about her feelings or preferences. I do wonder if she’d like a partner as most of her friends are in relationships, but she shuts any attempt at discussion about her personal life down very quickly and I don’t want to upset her. I’ve asked her if she’s feeling okay and she always says ‘I’m fine’; she’s never been particularly emotive or demonstrative.
After a lot of persuasion she had bloods done at the GP but they came back normal except for a slight iron deficiency which she now takes tablets for. She’s not under or over weight, but she doesn’t exercise except for sometimes going for a walk. I’m sure she’s not drinking or taking drugs, she hates the smell of weed or cigarettes and honestly all strong smells in general; the only thing we ever seem to argue about is cooking smells because she can’t stand strong smelling food! She’s never been into partying anyway although she did go to some parties in college and at university. It’s all just such a contrast to her siblings’ lives and my life at her age. I don’t want to compare her to others as she is her own person, but her life now seems so limited and sad.
I think what would ultimately make her happy and help her flourish is moving out into her own space either in the city nearby or another large city. She likes parks, museums etc. And there isn’t anything like that near us. It would be fine for her to spend most of her time alone and probably suit her a lot, but at least she’d be getting out of the house if she lived somewhere with more to do. However, there’s no way she’d be able to live independently on her current salary, and honestly I want her to get a better job. I do think she must have decent savings despite the poor pay at her current job, but that’s only because she doesn’t have any apparent expenses. I haven’t verbalised this to her, but her job at the moment is dead end and she‘s an intelligent girl with lots of skills. She deserves to build a career but I think she lacks the motivation, direction and confidence. She doesn’t know what she wants to do and always says non-committal things like ‘I’ll figure it out’, or ‘my job is okay for now’ if I ever ask her if she’d like help with her CV, exploring different job options etc. I don’t want to labour the point too much because I suppose at least she is working full time and saving money; she never goes out!
I don’t want her to feel that she’s being forced out as we’re the people that she spends the most time around and I wouldn’t want her to feel rejected by us when she doesn’t have a large circle around her anyway. I want to show interest in her life and help her without being pushy!
So, any help and advice on how to help my DD would be very much appreciated. I’m beginning to fear she could be getting depressed. She’s a sweet, kind, pretty girl and I love her, and I want her to flourish!

You sound lovely - as does she.
it's a tricky one as she needs to find the impetus in herself to make the move. I think if she seems contented rather than repeatedly engage her in discussions about moving on, I might start doing things with her that take her slightly out of her comfort zone? Whether it's the cinema, the two of you joining a walking group, going to a talk or an exhibition? Sometimes it's useful to see how our children socialise with other. It might give you some clues?

However, if she seems contented and you're happy having her at home then maybe she's just a "late starter" and it will take a while before she strikes out in her own?

What could she do with her degree?

Could you suggest a career coach? Someone who would help her ‘figure it out’?

it does sound like she’s in a rut.

She sounds very afraid, possibly even slightly on the spectrum which makes a person prone to overthinking and anxiety.

i guess she is comfortable where she is now. But perhaps she should push herself because you and your DH won’t always be there.

She sounds low in confidence and self esteem. Again it sounds like it’s her personality and that leads her to ruminate and decide to play things safe.

she might need help to understand what her dream life looks like. And learn that it is achievable.

Would an MA or MSc help get her back on track?

No real advice, but I think you can try writing to "Ask Phillipa" column in Guardian. She analyses things well and often able to points to useful resources

I’ve no advice really but it’s a shame when she sounds so amazing and you sound so caring. It would be amazing for her to get something that would really use her skills. European Parliament (I visited recently) use interpreters and I know that’s far away but that sort of thing.

She sounds introverted and maybe you need to ask her what you can do together? She likes parks so maybe you could suggest walks that would lead to conversations?

That period after doing a degree and getting a job, any job can be a real shock, but absolute respect to her for going to work rather than turning her nose up at a job that isn't a career for her with added bonus points for saying it's, 'fine for now.'

She may not be ambitious and maybe that's just her personality.

To me it sounds like she is neurodiverse and may well be struggling with change and the prospect of independence.

If she moved to the city alone might she simply get lonely? Maybe she’s happier where she is. If you suspect anxiety / depression it could be worth seeking counselling?

I think she needs to work it out. What’s made her regress… I think she should get counselling.

however, some people are like this… they feel safe at home and in home town in low stressed job. Some are inverts who content with minimal friendship groups.

She might be asexual and not interested in any sex.

Thank you so much for the responses everyone. DH and I have been wondering if further study would suit her as she did enjoy university and has the diligence to succeed. It’s just getting her to aspire and plot her own pathway, I suppose.

She is certainly intelligent and hardworking but never been outgoing or a leader; she is a very passive person. It would be right to say that she is not ambitious; for example, some teachers at college suggested to her to apply to Oxbridge as she had the academic profile, but she never wanted to and honestly got so upset about it that we decided not to push her, because I do think she would have had a hard time fitting in with the very driven types of people there and perhaps lost even more confidence. We reassured her that she did not have to apply and she said that she’s glad we didn’t force her. But I can see that this is probably evidence of her lack of self-belief.

There is unfortunately not much going for young people where we live, I also don’t think she would like being taken to an activity by Mum! She isn’t childish and I can only think this would make her feel patronised. As I said, she is both shy and quite independent, which can be a tricky mix. She will go out and do things solo, as evinced by her study abroad year, but just doesn’t appear to have anything she wants to do at the moment. Her current hobbies seem to be watching films/tv/documentaries and reading, which are quite solitary things.

DH & I go to church and are involved in societies within our church, however DD has long expressed that she is an atheist and it’s of course her right to choose her own beliefs. I’m 51 and one of the younger members of our church groups anyway! She’s never liked sport and has always been fearful around that sort of thing; getting her to learn to swim and ride a bike as a child was an extremely lengthy nightmare! I think something like a German/languages club would suit her, but I’m certain she’d have to travel a fair way to find that.

Overall there aren’t many young people nor opportunities for them in our town outside of trades/hospitality, which is why I think moving to a city would be great for her. If she hadn’t shown her abilities growing up and this job was really the fulfilment of her potential then I would be perfectly content that she is economically active and productive, but I know it’s not an easy life on a low wage and she does have the diligence, education and work experience to get into a well-paying line of work. She doesn’t need to be some sort of corporate superstar, but I would like her to find a job that will be fulfilling for her, use her skills, and pay enough for her to have a good quality of life. Thank you for the suggestion about a career coach @Mabs49, I will look into that.

So many people on mumsnet try an diagnose others. Your daughter sounds lovely and she will figure things out in her own time!

In the mean time go on trips or weekends away with your daughter.

She is still so young, her time to shine will come.

It's hard isn't it - we worry if our AC are painting the town red and getting drunk, and equally if they seem to be leading limited lives.

I do not think that there is a great deal you can do as any attempts to open discussion could be seen as a criticism of the life she seems to have chosen at the moment.

When one of my DDs seemed to be in a dead end job that did not really tally with her skills and qualifications I did organise a meeting with a careers advisor (with her blessing of course). That person said she would make a good careers advisor! - hmmm.

Failure to launch is a thing (and more so than it used to be)

You sound great and so does she, but I think you need to stop pussyfooting around this. She’s 23 and it’s fine for you to say to her that you love her and you want her to have a life - which means getting on a career path that uses her degree and leaving home.

Do ask her what she wants of course, but she’ll be coming from a place of fear right now, so if she says she’s quite happy, say repeat that she has got a bit stuck and she’s not going to want to be living at home at 40, and edge her forward bit by bit.

Get advice (uni careers service, coach, online research btwn you all) and get a plan moving. Aim to have her out and in a job in a year, and that way it shouldn’t be more than 18 months tops. Failing all else she can go teach EFL in Berlin, but it sounds like a structured plan would be better for her.

What’s her degree in?

Would she be interested in going back to Germany? Say, to teach English, or be a guide round a historic city s.a. Berlin?

I've moved a lot and am an introvert. IME, In a roundabout way being a foreigner can make it easier to open up.

And, despite the validity of the warnings against armchair diagnoses, could she be a bit aspergery? The hatred of smells is suggestive. It's still under-diagnosed in girls/women. Look at 'autistic girls' network'.

@theduchessofspork in first post

"My DD23 graduated from a Russell Group university last summer with a 1st in History and German"

I don’t think you said anywhere that she is unhappy or frustrated, she just isn’t living the life you think she should. About her not being able to afford to move to a city, she could if she wanted to even in a low paid job … a house share and a pub second job would make it possible.

And, if this is her life, why not charge her a realistic amount for living with you?
That would be treating her like an adult, and may make her think about a better job if money means anything to her.

i would check out Spectrumy’s page on Facebook.

Her earlier posts help explain a lot of the exhaustion that ND people experience and the constant internal questioning that goes on inside an aspie’s head.

The smell and then also the associated dyspraxia of finding swimming and cycling much harder than the average child. Big telltale signs of ND.

She’s come home because it’s safe.

Kick her out, kindly. That’s no life for a woman in her 20s, even if Mners try to normalise it. Why is she in such a dreadful job which has nothing to do with her degree? Did she only consider jobs in her home town?

Interested what advice could be given....she is safe young woman. Is this now rehsrded as depression

Regarded. What we came as a society to. If they go out and drink and sleep around fine. If they keep safe, mind their own business has to be sign of emotional illness...

This may be a terrible idea but would she like a dog? Sounds a bit random but some people who are shy get a lot from having a dog for company and to get them out each day. I realise she works FT so it would be a case of if you as a family could meet the dogs needs.

It does sound as a cautious person, she playing it very safe in a low demand job living with the people she feels safest with.

I think it's really common to flounder at this age but it does sound like she could use as little encouragement to find her wings. The suggestion of career guidance is great. Also just saying that you are so proud of her and you think she's too good for this job isn't too pushy. Or even saying alot that you have said here - that she needs to picture how she wants her life to be and make a path towards it.

Ability to name and express emotions can be alexithymia which is often co occurring with autism.

Can you make any opportunities to share your inner worlds with her?

Could you see a careers coach who has knowledge of neurodivergence?

History and German are quite limiting as to what job she could do. It was quite obvious she would end up in a call centre. She needs to get a career that she likes. She will meet people that way.

Has she considered admin roles? University admini roles can be very “safe” (no corporate sales targets, etc) but would let her find her level. Not too badly paid and you go into a nice office and/or work from home. And she’s been to university so in that sense it’s a familiar environment. And in a university town there are more young people around, clubs, gyms, etc that she could join if she wanted to - even if she wanted to remain fairly solitary, going to a gym regularly for a swim or something just seems nicer for a 20 something than walks with her mum. You both sound lovely, and I’m sure she’ll find her way.