Dd23, limited life, not blossoming, worried she may be depressed

[luceygoosey]

Apologies that this may be very long, but I don’t want to drip feed.
My DD23 graduated from a Russell Group university last summer with a 1st in History and German. She’s always had great grades throughout school and university; she worked hard in academics and we’re very proud of her achievements. She lived independently at university and even studied abroad in a major German city for a year. She’s also travelled solo in Europe too. I’ve never been particularly worried about her before save for some issues with anxiety which I’ve always done my best to help with.
Dd has always had a very independent personality, and is also shy and reserved. That’s fine, but what’s worrying me now is that it’s tipping over into her being withdrawn and a loner. Since graduating she just seems to be drifting in life and not participating. She’s moved back home with us in a commuter northern town and is still here a year later. She’s considerate in that she cooks and cleans, but I don’t make her pay any rent as I want her to be able to save, and she does do shopping for us. She doesn’t take the piss in any way, in fact she’s very peaceful to live with as she never has anybody round!
She has a 9-5 job in customer services and takes the bus there as she doesn’t drive. She’s never wanted to learn to drive and is in fact quite fearful around cars; she doesn’t like to be on the motorway etc. Her siblings drive but she is content not to drive, and I suppose this isn’t really a problem as she is always punctual to work.
However, her job is low paying and irrelevant to her degree; she’s just advising people on the phone all day. After work she comes home and stays in her room all night. On the weekends she’s in pyjamas all day watching Netflix. All of her childhood friends have moved away bar one, and her university friends live in different cities across the country. She does occasionally meet up with the one friend, but the friend is in a relationship and DD says she will soon be moving away with her boyfriend. It upsets me to think DD doesn’t really have any friends to hang out with. I suppose I don’t know if she FaceTimes or texts friends much, but she doesn’t have many updates on friends when I enquire about what her friends are up to. If DH and I have people round she just stays upstairs in her room.
Her isolation has been especially noticeable lately because her siblings DD19 and DS20 are home from university and are always hanging out with friends, making plans. They do all get on as siblings which I suppose is a plus. And it’s okay if she’s not like her siblings; they are all different people with good qualities and DH and I have always tried our best to treat them equally.
DD has always been quite closed off and reserved; she was a shy child and never had an interest in extra curricular activities or a hobby except a German club in high school. She hated things like drama and sport and teachers would comment that she was a clever girl but very anxious about her grades, behaving well, and mostly keeping herself to herself. Despite being academic she never had any leadership positions at school and wouldn’t apply to be a library prefect in Year 11 even though she was heavily encouraged by us and by many teachers. At university she did blossom a little but has always been reserved and academic, not doing much else except study. That’s fine, I accept her personality as it is, but I can’t help but feel that she is lonely. To my knowledge she has never been in a relationship and I can honestly say I’m not even sure of her sexuality! I’d be fine if she was gay or straight or anything else, but she’s just never opened up about her feelings or preferences. I do wonder if she’d like a partner as most of her friends are in relationships, but she shuts any attempt at discussion about her personal life down very quickly and I don’t want to upset her. I’ve asked her if she’s feeling okay and she always says ‘I’m fine’; she’s never been particularly emotive or demonstrative.
After a lot of persuasion she had bloods done at the GP but they came back normal except for a slight iron deficiency which she now takes tablets for. She’s not under or over weight, but she doesn’t exercise except for sometimes going for a walk. I’m sure she’s not drinking or taking drugs, she hates the smell of weed or cigarettes and honestly all strong smells in general; the only thing we ever seem to argue about is cooking smells because she can’t stand strong smelling food! She’s never been into partying anyway although she did go to some parties in college and at university. It’s all just such a contrast to her siblings’ lives and my life at her age. I don’t want to compare her to others as she is her own person, but her life now seems so limited and sad.
I think what would ultimately make her happy and help her flourish is moving out into her own space either in the city nearby or another large city. She likes parks, museums etc. And there isn’t anything like that near us. It would be fine for her to spend most of her time alone and probably suit her a lot, but at least she’d be getting out of the house if she lived somewhere with more to do. However, there’s no way she’d be able to live independently on her current salary, and honestly I want her to get a better job. I do think she must have decent savings despite the poor pay at her current job, but that’s only because she doesn’t have any apparent expenses. I haven’t verbalised this to her, but her job at the moment is dead end and she‘s an intelligent girl with lots of skills. She deserves to build a career but I think she lacks the motivation, direction and confidence. She doesn’t know what she wants to do and always says non-committal things like ‘I’ll figure it out’, or ‘my job is okay for now’ if I ever ask her if she’d like help with her CV, exploring different job options etc. I don’t want to labour the point too much because I suppose at least she is working full time and saving money; she never goes out!
I don’t want her to feel that she’s being forced out as we’re the people that she spends the most time around and I wouldn’t want her to feel rejected by us when she doesn’t have a large circle around her anyway. I want to show interest in her life and help her without being pushy!
So, any help and advice on how to help my DD would be very much appreciated. I’m beginning to fear she could be getting depressed. She’s a sweet, kind, pretty girl and I love her, and I want her to flourish!

As many of you have said, she needs an exit plan in place. She’s lived alone and away from us before and I think she seemed happier during those periods of her life. She’s very responsible, has good time management and saves her money so if she were earning more I’d be raring to help her find her own place. I have also brought up discussion about the future and she has said that she would like to move out, but that she needs to save up and that she doesn’t know where to go or what to do. She seems a bit paralysed and that’s what I want to help her overcome.

Thank you to whoever brought up the idea of a holiday together, I’m thinking perhaps asking her to come with me for a city break in Germany as she can speak the language and be a great guide. This could be a nice change to her boring routine and get her feeling a bit more inspired again?

I know plenty of graduate schemes are opening for applications in winter, so we could look at some together and get her to apply. They offer a lot of training and structured development which I can see being helpful to her as she lacks confidence. I’m also going to look into a careers advisor, and if she is still really struggling perhaps some counselling. A master’s degree could also be an option as she is very academic.

The main goal is to avoid any terminal failure to launch, and whilst I think she feels safe living like this, I can see that she is not happy and fulfilled in the way she was when she was living away at university/abroad.

Anyway, I’ve now spent some time reading through the posts on this thread and I can see lots of different approaches being suggested. I’m very grateful as I now have plenty of ideas for ways to try to help DD. Something here has to work!

Young adults like this (quiet, shy, anxious, reserved, academic, no friends or interest in relationships) are invariably autistic. It’s amazing it still gets missed IMO.

Yes and for someone like this who is probably mildly on the spectrum, doing a job in customer service would be extremely tiring and soul sucking.

She needs a job where she can spend at least some of it working alone, being responsible for her own output.

Id say probably an archivist or working in a museum or in a university in research.

Her working style is important. A grad scheme full of pressure to perform and socialise might be stressful.

There’s an online strength test called StrengthsFinder it’s about £20 and it takes about 50 mins to complete.

It won’t give her career advice as such but it will show her where her strengths are.

The other things she could do is look at 16 personalities test online for free. Again it’s not going to give career advice but it will help her understand herself more and what sort of person she is. I’m an ENFP for instance and I love helping people but I hate customer service with a passion.

Anyway, good luck. She sounds lovely and like she just needs a foot in the door somewhere that’s right for her. If you’re in the north, what about Manchester museums and libraries? Or research houses of some sort? Think tanks? Politics? Working for an MP? Maybe a masters in public policy and go and work for the civil service. So many things.

You do realise that what you've written could be a list of criteria for screening for ASD. They even ask at the initial appointment how you feel about strong smells.

should she do masters?
can you research related masters for her
or teach abroad qualification

a librarian needs a masters - that might be something she could be interested in

Does she do anything creative? If you asked her if she could do literally anything in life, what would it be?

Sounds as though she has defined herself by her academic achievements and now they are done she's possibly a bit lost. She's using home as comfort which is great, nothing wrong with that, but your posts strike me because there doesn't seem to be much joy in her life - is there?

I counsel young people and this isn't always true!

So she's quiet, reserved, independent, took a first from an RG University and speaks another European language. Add to that she has a first job and is attending to it assiduously and is saving up. She's not drinking, doing drugs, staying out all night with undesirables or suffering from an eating disorder.

@luceygoosey may I gently suggest you accept your dd for the person she is and respect her for herself. Give her time and let her grow into herself and into being independent. She will find herself and may I also venture that the covid shutdowns which will have affected her later years in education probably didn't help if she is a quiet soul.

She may well never cause you a moments drama.

I think when people get stuck like this any move is better than none.
Waiting to feel certainty about what the right next step is will often lead to no steps at all.

Not every step has to be forward, it’s ok if it’s sideways iykwim as it teaches you something new, even it’s it what you don’t want. But inertia becomes harder to break out of the more stagnant you remain.

My DS was a bit like this after uni but he was just a late developer I think. He took a TEFL course and moved to Berlin in his late 20s and that was the making of him.. would your DD consider doing a TEFL course or perhaps an MA

Most universities allow alumni to access the careers service for a period of time after graduation. So she can get in touch with them rather than trying to find a random careers advisor.

While she sounds very acadmeic, unlike PP, I’d caution against pursuing an actual academic career. Even if she did very well at a masters and PhD (required for any academic job) positions in the humanities are like hens’ teeth and humanities HE is going down the toilet with departments closing around the country (thank you Tories). Also it’s not a career for someone who isn’t competitive/ driven/ doesn’t like putting themselves out there.

When reading your first post I did think your daughter could be autistic. It's good that she has lived away from home before but I'd be concerned that she's retreated to a safe space and isn't coming out of it. Seeing how her siblings behave now highlights her 'hiding away' even more.

You sound like a lovely caring mum and you've spotted that things aren't quite right. The fact that she's not really happy points to the fact that she needs some help.

It's just hard to decide what that help should be. Quite rightly she most likely doesn't want mum to be taking her to places to provide a social life but the idea of a weekend away in Germany is a good one and gives her the opportunity to help you. See if she's up for that. And if she says yes, this is an opportunity to observe how she handles it. She may have lived away from home before and give the impression that she coped well, but did she?

I'd also talk to your GP about an assessment for ASD. Knowing she is autistic would help her to understand why she behaves the way she does and set her on a path to find coping strategies.

Of course she may not be ASD at all but she clearly needs some help to start the next phase of her life. The call centre job is probably not what she wants to be doing but she sounds like she could be stuck in a bit of a rut with it. A weekend away with her at the helm would be a good opportunity to let her shine and get her to open up about what she'd really like to do next.

I don't know why so many posters instantly decide she's autistic.. surely this must be diagnosed

I think a lot of young people can get into a rut at that age. I know I certainly did! I only came out of it when I was in my late 20s. I started a new hobby which I love, and yes, I learned to drive. I was very much like her, at her age. I didn't see the point, was scared of it, etc. But everyone is ready at their own pace, but she needs to come to that conclusion.

If she has a full time job and is paying her way, I'm not sure there's a huge amount you can do.

Has she made any friends at the call centre? Plenty of graduates start working at call centres. It gets them some money and buys them time to think about the next step. But it's also a big pool of people to start a bit of a social life with. Does she get included in things but instinctively say "No". I think exploring that might be useful - putting yourself out there in small ways and saying "Yes" to things you're not 100% sure you'll enjoy.

1. Many posters here are late diagnosed autistic, so they perfectly understand why some young people feel this way
2. Vast numbers of people, especially women, go their entire lives with no one spotting their autistic traits, least of all themselves

DH who was not dissimilar to this, did TEFL in Germany at a similar age.

Really enjoyed it, made friends and got to work out what he actually wanted to do.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn Not only are waiting lists extremely long (and post diagnosis help minimal), her GP will probably be loathe to add to it, as there isn't actually a problem here. I got a late diagnosis (thought autism, was ADHD) and I never got anywhere with my GP. Paid to go private in the end. But I'd already gotten a lot of information online so the diagnosis wasn't much use.

For one, the OP has painted her child as a 'loner', yet she has friends! From her childhood, in uni.
Currently , in a dead-end town with few prospects, where does she think her DD, an intellectual, well-travelled young woman is magically going to find friends on her level? I may sound snobbish but it's true.

Secondly, job hunting with a degree like that is overwhelming. There are so many options. Applications for the big grad schemes involve multiple stages, only the last few with a human. Stories of others' success is everywhere, there's a lot of messaging especially in an RG uni that if you haven't gotten a plum grad job after graduation you've failed.

Also, rents are sky high, you can't just 'move to the big city' to seek your fortune as people used to!

It's no wonder she's somewhat demotivated.

OP, I recruit graduates and have quite a few from RG unis (yes, even Oxford and Cambridge) coming in 2 years after graduation.

You can read up about autistic traits, maybe see if some of them like high levels of anxiety, pathological demand avoidance (PDA) applies to her, find some strategies that might suit her. I wouldn't be fixating on a diagnosis. A lot of people on MN are ND themselves and do a lot of projecting. Get the ball rolling if you want but I doubt that it'll be a lot of help.

In the meantime, I think you might have to start charging her a bit of rent, also share some stories etc of people who have taken a year or two to find a grad job.

Is there maybe some volunteering or something else she can do even online, for charities etc that will help her see where her skills can take her.

BTW people who are good at exams can often fall into a rut as it's all they've ever known. Getting good grades is very different to working, in the real world. Its understandable that she's a bit scared. Maybe of failure? If she never tries, she never has to fail. Has she even failed an exam in her life?

My language school runs an online German class every Friday evening on Zoom. I think it has two or three people in it. She’d be welcome to join it if she’s interested.

You sound like a lovely mum x

Would she consider volunteering OP? Could be a good way to mix with others from all walks of life and might broaden her horizons. Or what about tutoring German to school pupils - does she enjoy working with younger people? That could also be a confidence boost.

I found the 18 months or so after uni quite hard.

For what it’s worth I am a few years older than your DD and while I did live in my own place at her age, I had pretty much the same routine as her (just with rent added!). I am not super social, and working in a call centre environment was extremely draining and demotivating. I often spend evenings decompressing in silence, or weekends in front of the TV.

See if she would be interested in civil service or local government jobs. They are low stress with a good work life balance, plus opportunities to move up the ladder internally. When I started this kind of job I met like minded people and even colleagues who were a bit older than me who I felt I wanted to take inspiration from. This is when I really started taking control of my life - saving money, finding hobby’s, dating, thinking about professional courses, driving.

I'd give her time. I saw so many friends rush from success to success only to suffer burnout later in lif

While some of the ones whose parents worried about them because they spent a few years in "dead end" jobs have gone on to absolutely flourish.

Let her find her own drive . It's great that once she is works out what she wants to do she will have some savings behind her.

I lived at home for a couple of years after university and that savings cushion was such a boost. I then found a job the other end of the country and totally took my parents by suprise

Agree that local govt/civil service at both good options for "working your way up" and also for by and large being supportive employers

She sounds ND to me.

Low challenge to reduce stress
Isolating at home
Anxiety
Sensitivity to smells.