Daughter shocked me

[Annie1955]

My adult daughter who is 33 married and lives in Hong Kong for last 7 years has told me that all we did through her childhood was row and that her father was never there. This has come as a bit of a shock, not the rowing, which was not all the time, yes of course it happened, no excuse but we went through a lot of financial difficulties from losing half the value of our property to the interest rates going up to 15%, this was back in the early 90s. We nearly lost our home but thanks to my mum we held on. Then again in 2008 financial crash my husband lost his job as he's in hospitality and didn't work for another 14 months, we nearly lost our house again, paying for our mortgage on credit cards etc etc. I was working but my salary didn't cover everything.

She never ever gave any inclination that there were any issues until a couple of years ago she started distancing herself as I was always very close to her, at least that's how I felt. We went to HK in April, first time since 2019, and I could feel she was just trying too hard and I noticed that sometimes when my husband was speaking she would roll her eyes. I obviously didn't mention it at the time as it may have just escalated.
Once back I spoke to her and she then told me that her father was always away, well he did have to work and people in hospitality do long hours. She then said its taken her years to realise that having a family that rows consistently is not the norm. I understand that we all see things differently but it's really hit me hard and don't know how this can be resolved at all. I feel awful if this has caused her issues but she always seemed such a happy child. I'm so sad.

I don't agree that you're obliged to validate her. As pp said you are human. She might be misremembering. Putting emphasis in different places with hindsight.

Just to give a different point of view - rowing at all doesn't need to be normal. My parents rowed dreadfully before and after they split up (thank god they did split up) and so did my grandparents and so does my uncle with his wife. So many families think its normal. A pp above implied that once a week is too much. I'd argue that rowing in front of your kids ever is too much.

For example, my in laws genuinely never row. If they disagree on something, if it's serious, they discuss it - if it's trivial, they drop it and let it go. Me and my dh are the same. I've never heard my dh raise his voice and we've been together 13 years (married 5). Don't get me wrong, we've had some serious disagreements. But they weren't resolved by rowing.

Where I think your dd is unreasonable is berating you for it now. What can you do about it now?

My situation was different, but for a few years I know my parenting was not wonderful, my eye was off the ball as I struggled to keep our family together. My sons never blamed me, but knew more of the situation than I realised. This did affect their mental health, and my younger son died at 26 from alcohol abuse. I have felt guilty, but this is useless, I think now, that I did my best at the time in the situation I was in. This is the only positive way to look at it.

I really don't think that therapy is good for everyone. I think it can be too easy to start negative navel gazing and then start pinning all your problems on whatever you come up with

Yes, I strongly agree with this

@SGsling insightful but it’s really all hindsight.
It’s almost sport to blame; global economics, climate change, housing issues on the parents.
Too much free time and no one does physical work hence tons of time spent thinking and blaming others.
people pleasing, walking on eggshells, anxiety was happening in Victorian times.
the daughter most likely stopped listening to her parents by 16, at 33 she needs to take some responsibility.
let me guess she’s unhappy with work, spouse, children and as much as she doesn’t want to be a Stepford wife, she’s secretly pissed she doesn’t have it all meanwhile won’t acknowledge the socioeconomic challenges her parents faced.

My take is that she is telling you what she experienced. Her thoughts, her feelings. You won't have the same view as you were not her age, in her position and didn't experience what she did. You can't say that didn't happen or no that's wrong because it isn't, it is her experience, her truth.

Did you genuinely do your best? If so you can find comfort in that. As PP said, very few people have idyllic childhoods and all parents make mistakes or go through difficult times where it impacts on their children.

I am not sure I agree. I think that means the therapy isn’t that great or the person is refusing to look inside themselves thus coming to the wrong conclusion and externalising their problems. I’ve had a lot of therapy and a lot of not great therapy, some pretty poor until I found the person right for me.

My Grandparents used to row all the time apparently and my Mum has since told me that it was because of how that made her feel that she told my Dad that they were to NEVER row in front of me when I was a child.

It had a weirdly opposite effect on me as because I never saw them row, when I had my first argument with my first boyfriend I assumed our whole relationship was doomed because we'd rowed, and perfect couples don't argue (spoiler alert, they do, and no, it was definitely not a perfect relationship - he's a long gone ex!).

So, in a weird way, protecting me from family arguments actually damaged me a little and never taught me that rows aren't always totally unhealthy.

I don't think my Mum ever told my Nan about how their rows made her feel and I'm not sure how my Nan would have taken it if she did.

As PP have said, all you can do is apologise to your daughter that she feels that way. It sounds like it was a very stressful time and you had no idea of the impact it was having on her.

My DF wasn't around much because he had to work so hard, but I knew it was because he was working to support the family and he'd have been around more if he could. This is where I think your DD is being a little unreasonable and where you should stick up for your husband a bit as it's hardly like he wasn't around because he was off down the pub every night.

No one's childhood is perfect.
We are all human and we argue.
She got in the two of you an example of two people who pushed through tough times, even with high emotions going around, managed to raise a child and stayed together.
Now she can improve on that with her own family.
Rowing is not ideal, it is not a good way of arguing. Talking about the issues calmly and respectfully is better, of course, but it is not an easy art to master.
Those who never had a single row can throw the first stone, I would say.

That's such a patronising & generalising post

OP's DD deserves to be taken at face value, not dismissed as part of a generational assumption.

Excellent post.

It doesn't matter what OP thinks or if she feels DD has 'misremembered' 🙄

Emotionally DD feels disconnected & upset by her childhood.

It's the emotion, not the 'facts' that are relevant & DD absolutely should have her feelings validated.

Where I think your dd is unreasonable is berating you for it now. What can you do about it now?

I don't see where she's 'berating' anyone? She is sharing her feelings about an upbringing she found challenging.

OP can listen, and hear her - that's what she can do.

A lot of ridiculous guesswork going on there.

Honestly, why can't DD's emotional viewpoint be valid, without the Stepford Wife nonsense.

Read The Rules Of Estrangement.

Indeed, not to mention that “trauma” and “victimhood” is hugely popular and has tremendous social currency right now, a general attitude which is influenced by constant emoting and requests for pity on social media. Not saying your daughter is claiming or doing things these things but we are definitely in an era of Blame & No Redemption for older generations for contextually normal if not particularly pleasant behaviours/experiences

For clarity my own childhood was very difficult and I’ve had period of NC with my parents so I’m not at all being dismissive.

Agree with this

Maybe the daughter is a drama queen or has been encouraged to generate misleading memories by her therapist. Having feelings or beliefs doesn't entitle you to unquestioning agreement. If someone is talking nonsense they need to hear it.

And, to be honest, she sounds like a massive baby. Oh no did widdle baby's parents argue when they were stressed over money? And does widdle baby now enjoy an international lifestyle thanks to the upbringing she was given? Dummies of validation all round.

well said @BethDuttonsTwin

I don't think that's healthy either though, to never disagree in front of children. I have deliberately let my DDs see me and DH have a disagreement. (Not a shouting match or really serious things). I want them to see me voice my opinion and for DH to take it on board. It doesn't do women any good to just "keep the peace". My MIL did this with FIL and oh my goodness, did she make a rod for her own back.

I also think it's really important for them to see that adults can disagree on things and have a bit of a row/debate and then make up and move on.

Oh we disagree a lot. About big things too. We even argue sometimes in a debate kind of way. But we never row. Rowing is raising your voice, losing your temper and saying disrespectful things. It's harmful for kids to witness that.

In the rare times I've lost my temper at dh (he never does with me, he's too cool blooded to have a temper), it's never in front of dd and I hope never will be.

I think you should write her a letter. Don't labour how you are feeling (sad - understandably), but talk about how loved she was and is; about how you and your OH were under stress financially and tried to keep that from her, but that it sometimes caused arguments that you have clearly failed to keep from her, and that she hated, and say how sorry you are that this was/is the case. She needs to be clear that none of that changed how much you loved her and wanted the best for her.

She is a grown woman now and , whilst these things are sad memories for her, she is old enough to understand that life is not perfect and a bit about human nature and how adults react under stress. But don't put this in quite that way!! But you get my point.

Childhood experiences do run very deep, and we often remember the bad over the good.

It is particularly hard as she is so far away.

Please send her a letter - don't word it as though you are making excuses - state things positively.

Lots of good luck with all this - but please do not beat yourself up over this - we all do our best as parents and that ALWAYS falls short of the ideal. And you now have an OH with mental health problems to deal with - do your best to reach out to DD, but don't make it your whole focus - you need to have some fun.

@BethDuttonsTwin @ForestGoblin @greenspaces4peace you may have a point but the other side of it is that trauma is very subjective and some children may perceive something as traumatic. That's their truth. It doesn't mean that the parent is a monster.

I am in therapy for complex trauma. I've had eating disorders, diagnosed with EUPD/BPD, and some related things. My family from the outside looking in looked very happy, and my parents claimed nothing bad happened to us. Perhaps they meant compared to their childhoods which I know we're very difficult .

My memories are different to my parents memories. I recall violent arguments, name calling, threats, I recall hiding away in terror of my father and being suicidal as I got older. Started self harming way before that . I remember a lot of being told I was stupid, and called bitch, fatty, miss piggy etc. I also remember some unwanted sexual touching and sexual talk from another (elderly) male relative and older boys at school trying to make me strip for them and threatening me if I said no. I wasn't actually beaten or anything like that but it was threatened a lot. If I didn't do well at school, or talked back to them.

Maybe I wasn't "abused" or anything like that. And I don't believe I was always unhappy every minute of every day. But I was prone to anxiety, depression, panic. I don't use these words lightly. In many other ways my parents were lovely and all my friends wanted parents like them... So maybe it is all me?

I did make some awful choices as a teenager and adult .like giving up on my religion and refusing to listen to my parents or anyone else.

But my behaviour as a young child was very troubled and I believe something must have triggers it! I mean things like being very spiteful, always needing to be shown more validation and love than anyone else, real rages and a fear of being abandoned. I never was actually abandoned I don't think . I would self harm in various ways , physically and putting myself in bad situations. I was shy often and feared people but also would crave attention and so stupid things to get it . I don't justify the fact I was a mean girl who lashed out when the other kids teased me or humiliated me, but I believe my bullying was a cry for help.

It could be a brain disorder of some kind though in my case. Amygdala being hypersensitive or something ?

I guess we can never be sure. Having said that the trauma narrative is working well for me and therapy is helping me loads. I've done DBT for the BPD and for the "trauma" and am also doing some parts work, inner child work. I am much less anxious and full of self doubt than I was. Fewer breakdowns. Haven't been in hospital for ages .

Sorry, I've rambled on a bit and I'm probably not helping the OP one bit. But I wanted to address the misconception that people label themselves traumatised or victims just for kudos. And to point out that words like "trauma" and what constitutes a bad childhood, can often be very much down to our perception of how things were.

Is she a parent yet or gone through any difficult life stages? Job losses, divorce etc?

I don't think you appreciate the relentlessness of parenthood and we were all perfect parents before we had kids!

Life puts strains on relationships but if you are still together it can't be that bad.

I am absolutely sick of seeing people dissecting perfectly ordinary childhoods in pursuit of a perfection that doesn't exist.

There are some things my parents definitely didn't get right (and I don't mean a bit of rowing) but I'm quite sure I wasn't a perfect child/teenager at all times either. We are all human and making mistakes is an inevitable part of that.