DS & DD with mental health issues are walking all over me

[Chiggy]

I split up with my DS (23) and DD (22) dad because I discovered he not only had mental health issues, he also stole money from me and gambled it away, and caused so much financial hardship when our children were quite young, and put so much strain onto me that I became physically ill and ended up in hospital. My adult son dropped out of school, then tried college but couldn't cope with that either, because he was bullied due to his weight in both places (he has an under active thyroid) and he started having panic attacks. He self neglects and can do nothing for himself at 23 years old, although he can game and talk to his online friends. I tried to help him to get psychological help but he didn't keep up with it. My 22 year old daughter was date raped when drunk by a "friend" and didn't tell anyone for quite a while. I had no idea what was going on but she self harmed by cutting her legs and stomach with a kitchen knife. She eventually told me about this, and is now receiving counselling with my help, but she seems to be about to drop out of her final year of uni. Both DS and DD live at home. My son has no income and can't do what he needs to do to obtain benefits. My daughter currently contributes some to the household, but I can already tell she will not be able to step up and get a job if she drops out of uni. She also is able to game all day and talk to online friends.

I try to be super supportive to both, I am trying to be even tempered and caring while making it clear I am about to become unable to pay for food due to the price of everything going up. My earnings barely cover the household bills. If I say too much both DS and DD have panic attacks and become suicidal, saying they are horrible people and don't deserve to live, so I feel controlled. I have pushed for promotion at work to get more money and succeeded, but I am so mentally tired after a day's work and I can't even afford to get my hair cut so I am presentable for meetings and I have to buy my clothes from second hand shops. I'm at my wit's end, I feel ill, and I don't know what to do. I am a strong person, but please try to imagine my position. I love these two human beings, they mean the world to me and I can't bear the thought of them feeling hurt or in pain, but I feel they don't feel the same about me as they are putting so much weight onto my shoulders, much the same as their dad did.

Are you able to afford a counsellor for yourself? For ongoing support and to explore strategies going forward. Also is there a local mind organisation near you? They offer help for carers as well as people with mental health issues.
Next time you try for PIP, take it to tribunal level. Something like 80 per cent negative decisions are overturned there.
You can get son put on the waiting list for autism assessment now.
I think it is reasonable to set boundaries eg to son: I love you very much and cannot watch you slowly commit suicide by not taking your medication. I need you to promise to take your medication daily or find somewhere else to live. It's that serious because I love you.
I wouldn't say the same to daughter re self harm because that often is a release that prevents worse. But if she drops out, I would explore part time online work she could do.
You are a very loving mother and I'm sorry things are so hard at the moment. It won't always be like this.
Please explore all the support available to you as a carer, including counselling if you can find it affordably.

I will probably get slated for suggesting it but having spent the last 20 years around a fair few autistic people your post screams autism to me. The anxiety, the unable to take any criticism, saying they are horrible people and don't deserve to live, the lack of resilience, feeling comfortable online but unable to deal with real life, it's all really familiar.

I don't really know how much help me suggesting it is but I suppose if they could get assessed and diagnosed it may make applying for benefits like pip easier. I'm not in the UK though so don't know how easy it is to get an adult assessment. If it is autism though OP none of this is manipulation or them trying to be controlling on purpose, it is just how autism manifests sometimes. Look through your children's family tree, is there autism there, in my family it runs through dhs side with dh being diagnosed after our ds was and quite a few nieces and nephews as well as his sister.

@HamBone yes, but he is an adult and there is only so much that I can do. He keeps his medication in his bedroom and can be stubborn. As you mentioned somewhere in my responses, be practices self neglect as a symptom of depression and doesn't care for him myself properly. I can't obtain help as he is an adult, and he listens to what I say with respect but doesn't do anything to help himself in a very passive aggressive way, he simply ignores.

Oh yes! My DS actually came to me and suggested he might be on the spectrum, and I helped him get help from our wellbeing service here in Norfolk, but they are in special measures and pretty much useless. I wanted to help him speak to our GP and insist on getting a proper assessment but our GPs seem as reluctant to interact with mental health services as they are dental problems. It's all disjointed and rubbish here.

Your response is really helpful and this has definitely been on my radar. I think I will try again to get my son to the GP and try to get him assessed.

Family history, DS and DDs dad had mental health issues which could definitely have been autism. I can't think of anyone on my side of the family with this, my side are the carriers of all the auto-immune diseases!

You sit your son down and be honest about everything you're going through and tell him he attends appointments to get appropriate help.

And he likely will be very upset but you'll have to stand your ground. You love him but you're enabling him. He won't do anything to help himself so long as you're not insisting that he does.

Do you get to spend time with your older sons and grandchildren?

Do you want the situation to be the same in 5 years time? That’s a conversation to have with yourself.
It was lovely that you son brought you flowers. The bigger issue is that he is harming you by living at home and not looking after himself. Does he get grocery shopping, hoover, batch cook meals? These are all ways of contributing. It’s time for a serious chat and some commitments to be made. At a minimum to start taking medication and to go to the gp to check it’s correct. If he is not willing to do that then he can move out.
Write a list of expectations and start to move forward.

Thanks so much for your response @Strongboat . I have had a series of counselling sessions through the NHS, but they were limited to 12 sessions. Our NHS wellbeing services are actually recruiting counsellors who are able to focus on time restricted counselling, it's insane! No, I can't afford to pay for counselling for myself unfortunately as I can't even afford a hair cut since all of the bills have become so much bigger.

I will look into mind, because there are branches in surrounding towns & cities. I hadn't thought of them. I just need to keep my energy levels high enough to take everything in hand and try to get him help. DD was good when I encouraged her, and she is now receiving counselling.

I have tried all sorts of boundaries, encouragement and at times frustration and anger because I am only human after all. I'm not perfect, but I do try. I have told my son if he doesn't get signed on for benefits the first thing to go will be the internet, and our phones which I am keeping going, but in reality sky has gone, netflix has gone and Amazon prime has gone. I have also cancelled my national trust membership and my personal health cash plan that paid for my dental and optical things. I don't have any kind of social life and I literally just work, cook a meal and fall asleep with a book in my hands.

I do also encourage my DS and DD to take a turn at cooking. I thought about giving my son the budget money for food and ask him to budget and order food for us for the month, but I don't think he will do very well with that and may buy a lot of unhealthy stuff.

Thank you so much for your support and kind words. I do feel my son not taking care of himself and not taking his medication is a form of slow suicide. Their father was previously married and when his ex wife kicked him out (long before I met him by the way) he broke into the ex marital home, got into bed with the ex wife, and dramatically slit both wrists with a Stanley knife right before her eyes. Mental health issues are unfortunately in their genes I think.

I am hopeful that DD will be able to get some kind of work if she drops out, but she is so close to the end and it will be such a shame as she only needs to finish her final dissertation.

We have been in this situation since my son was 15 and couldn't go to school anymore. I thought I was supermum and would be able to sort everything and for him to be fine again, but it hasn't happened and it's become more difficult no matter which approach I've tried.

I know he is harming me, and he knows it too but doesn't seem able to change anything. I thought about getting him to budget and plan food for a month for the three of us, but he's either likely to say yes and then just not do it, or but unhealthy food and not enough if it. He does enjoy cooking so getting him to batch cook is a great idea that I will try to get him involved with.

When he had a job this was remote. I suggested he buy his own food and cook for himself, which he did and enjoyed. Unfortunately he bought a lot of really bad foods and put on a lot of extra weight, but he had independence and enjoyed that. In some ways I think he would be better off living independently. I would be worried of course, but it may actually help him.

I do spend time with them, yes. Not as often as I would like as work takes up so much time, but I have a great relationship with them. I have been on holiday with them, we have days out together, they are all coming to mine for Easter Sunday lunch and are paying for the food, thank goodness. Youngest son and daughter will come down from their caves and will interact with the family, which will be good for them.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I agree with you. I have had this conversation with my son several times, and have ensured the ensuing tidal wave of emotional unrest that follows many times. I have examined myself and my actions many times and I know the level of enabling I have been participating in. I have literally tried every approach over the years, but he is an adult and I can lead him, have him listen seemingly attentively, and then completely ignore everything I have said. Someone else said he is committing slow suicide and that's exactly what it feels like. I draw the line at kicking him out of the family home though, I know I won't be able to make myself so that even though it may actually be best for him. I have suggested it though, but where to start to help him be independent I just don't know.

Di your older sons have a decent relationship with their younger brother. Could they talk to him, act as mentors to him?

What support is your daughter's University putting in place to help her graduate?

I think your son needs to live independently & ideally get his benefits sorted. He may get things like PIP or DLA (I don't know the difference). Unfortunately it sounds like you're dealing with this alone. It's not feasible long term for you to keep paying for 3 adults.

I'm much more tired since I hit 50, so I can't imagine the pressure you must feel.

You should at least keep your healthcare plan & maybe Netflix just so you can relax and watch TV.

It sounds like DD could potentially finish her degree and get a job.

It's interesting that the elder 2 seem fine & the younger 2 seem to be more like their Dad.

Ok,

First things first apply for PIP again. You become his advocate. If you attend the PIP interview and it's refused as he was fine you go for mandatory reconsideration and state clearly "as per the description of his needs he cannot cope without an advocate. Therefore I ask you to reconsider the claim as it asks if the person can do it alone. He cannot." For a start you've made it clear he needs adult supervision to take his medication and if he doesn't have it he doesn't take it with detriment to his own health.

Then appeal if needed.

Also universal credit. You can support his claim and then attend with him.

Agree about seeing GP and getting a note that he cannot work due to mental health.

I'd also contact your local social care for adults. Tell them he needs an assessment for capability.

It's so hard when you get stuck in a rut to get out of it. Your ds is currently stuck indoors because he's had panic attacks. So has panic attacks about the idea of being outdoors. So avoids it - making outdoors seem even scarier. CBT type approach may help and you can build it up.

So day 1 stand in doorstep for 1 minute. Keep going until he can manage 5.
Then walk 10m down the driveway. Build up to 5 minutes. Etc etc until he can make the end of the road. Then tolerate a drive to the shops even if you don't go inside.

The biggest barrier you have is he wants to want to get better to engage. And that's where you may need to employ tough love to provide a reason for him to want change.

But it's hard. My own ds is autistic and has suffered Man issues in the past and although doing really well currently I find that I worry when he's doing too much about him relapsing. I don't think anyone estimates the effects on the carers as as big as it is.

Yes definitely ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the pip. I did this for my sister by writing to them and it was overturned.

Disease). My son practices self neglect though, so will tend to not take his medication correctly. He insists on keeping them in his bedroom and says he is talking them, but the lack of new prescriptions arriving in the post is telling so I know he doesn't take them properly, but he is an adult and can be stubborn

Medicines is one of the things on the Pip application.

I have 2 dc with mental health issues. Neither manipulate me.

Lots of really good advice on here OP you can't pour from an empty cup you have to get help you sound totally exhausted! I too try to help my DD to cope with life she is almost 25 it's relentless you need support in rl for you 💐 you are an amazing mum ❤️

They are adults, and if they are okay to game all day they're also okay to get jobs,

Just to point out that i am an adult. I can ‘game’ easy games all day and I am unable to work. Actually I’m not even able to cook myself a meal everyday.

There is no relationship between being able to work and being able to game!!

I agree 100% with this

I think that your son needs to sort out his benefits ASAP. Even if that means you sit next to him, and that you help fill the applications.

Get him to apply for PIP, and make sure he puts you as a nominated person so you can help. I think he needs to realise that not doing anything isn't an option. He's an adult so either works, studies or claims benefits.

And your daughter the same. Yes they have struggles, but they need to take responsibility for themselves.

There is manipulative behaviour, and it needs to stop. Where is the empathy for you, they sound like they need to take steps to manage themselves. Maybe the Internet should go off during the day and only be on for the 6pm-10pm time slot.

Me too btw.
That was tte first thing that popped in my mind.

But I suspect you’ll have to go private now. They’ve restricted criteria even more ‘because if overwhelming demand’…..

And re PIP etc….
ive just gone through the system myself. It’s HARD WORK and tbh he would do very well with having support in filling it in and doing the assessment. It’s all about saying things the right way, emphasising the right thing, knowing the criteria inside out so you can give the appropriate answers….

You need to lay it on the line that unless he helps himself, you will go under. You just can’t afford or have the mental energy to keep them at home. Part of that is allowing you to control the medication and him going to the doctor.

A good friend of mine cracked after a few years of supporting her ds with addiction issues and his MH. She absolutely lost it at him and told him she was on antidepressants because of him - she ended up coming round to mine and crying as she felt so bad and that she'd done the wrong thing. Anyway it shocked him.and amazingly he ended up sorting his life out and is now at university after going back to college and getting his a levels.

A good friend of mine cracked after a few years of supporting her ds with addiction issues and his MH. She absolutely lost it at him and told him she was on antidepressants because of him - she ended up coming round to mine and crying as she felt so bad and that she'd done the wrong thing. Anyway it shocked him.and amazingly he ended up sorting his life out and is now at university after going back to college and getting his a levels.

First things first apply for PIP again. You become his advocate.

If you attend the PIP interview and it's refused as he was fine you go for mandatory reconsideration and state clearly "as per the description of his needs he cannot cope without an advocate. Therefore I ask you to reconsider the claim as it asks if the person can do it alone. He cannot."

For a start you've made it clear he needs adult supervision to take his medication and if he doesn't have it he doesn't take it with detriment to his own health.

Then appeal if needed.

Also universal credit. You can support his claim and then attend with him.

Agree about seeing GP and getting a note that he cannot work due to mental health.

I'd also contact your local social care for adults. Tell them he needs an assessment for capability.

I agree with all of this.

OP you sound understandably exhausted. 💐
I don't believe your children are manipulating you but you do need to fill your own cup, as they say, to be able to continue to support them in whatever way you can.

I also believe that it shouldn't fall directly on you now that they are adults. Adult social care can help with different things: getting a support worker for them who can help them apply for benefits, make referrals for housing, etc.

You've done your best. Please hang in there and try to seekhelp for them so you could have some respite. 💐