Daughter living in USA.

[LindyLou2020]

I wanted to NC for this but don't know how to. And I fear I'm not going to like some of the answers.....but I'm allowing myself to become quite depressed about this and need your help This may well be a long post, sorry! Please don't read if it will bore you. I am in the UK.
My daughter, now aged 30, has lived in the USA since 2012. She had previously spent 3 summers working in summer camps there whilst at uni here. She met and fell in love with a fellow camp worker, an American, and went to his university in mid-west USA to further her studies after graduating here - in 2012.
We got used to making trips there, interspersed with her trips home. We've obviously got to know (I'll call him Fred), very well, and get on with his parents.
They got married in the USA in 2019. I was privately hurt, but I knew it made sense for them as that's where their home is. But the guests consisted mainly of Fred's parents' family and friends, and friends of the couple, as only a few of our family and friends were able/willing to make the trip from the UK.
That hurt too, but I wasn't expecting anyone from here to attend at all, so I was thrilled when they could. And right from when the wedding date was announced, I was determined not to be a Mumzilla, so interfered with nothing, and helped with what my daughter wanted me to.
My daughter landed her first permanent job in academia this summer, after a couple of time-limited research posts. (I don't want to be too specific in case it's "outing"). She is very career-focussed and has worked extremely hard.
She chose it because it is at a good university, and it is on the east coast, meaning less of a time distance, and a direct flight. She and Fred moved there this summer
She knows I miss her terribly and wish we were in the same place, but also knows that I'm proud of her, and think it's so important to do work that you love, if you can.
I coped with her being there reasonably well, but with many wobbles, until this summer. The job itself has lent an air of permanence to everything, whereas before I think I was in denial and hoped she may come back.
What has really hit me so hard 'though, is that they are now living around a one and a half hour drive away from Fred's parents. I just can't get past this, and am ashamed to be consumed with jealousy.
They are good people, very family-orientated, but quite overpowering.
Fred's mum has already referred to my daughter as her daughter, and told her she loves her, on Facebook. But, they are quite openly and verbally affectionate in general, and tell DH and I they love us too!
So I try to accept that's how they are.
Fred has quite a large extended family, whereas my only family are my DH, DS, and DD. DH has siblings but they are not close at all and meet up rarely.
Already Fred's parents have seen Fred and my daughter around half a dozen times since the move. They mind the dog when the couple are away. Now that UK-USA travel is open again, we'll be able to visit. DD and Fred came here for 3 weeks in the summer, and will be here for Christmas.
My DD and I had, and have, a close, loving, relationship. We did so much together when she was a child/teen. She can tell me anything, and I can tell her how I feel, whilst assuring her it's for me to own and deal with, not her. She is aware of her in-laws' propensity to possessiveness and assures me they won't replace me and DH!
Because my own family of origin was lonely and unhappy, I invested heavily in my own children to ensure their childhood was different. I was very aware of being in danger of wanting them to meet my emotional needs, and be my antidote to loneliness, so I've deliberately encouraged them to be their own people and be adventurous.
I've read so much stuff regarding the "empty nest syndrome", and regarding people who are in similar situations, in places like Gransnet and the like, to try to help myself.
I know all the theory. We give them wings to fly. Let them go. They have their own lives, etc, etc.
But theory does not ease my feelings of bereavement.
I am trying to turn a skill into a career. I have started a new exercise regime. I keep in touch with friends. I'm learning a new sport. We Facetime, WhatsApp, etc. I'm trying so hard to forge my own life. I've been having counselling since August because I couldn't sort this out myself. I don't have any other family. I don't want to be this jealous person who could easily become bitter.
I swing between catastrophising - "DD will become closer to Fred's family to us and I'll lose her", and fantasising - "We'll go and live there and be together all the time". Please don't accuse me of being childish - I already know that I am and need to grow up.
I'm embarrassed to think I've opened myself up far too much by posting all this. But I would just love some thoughts as to what else I can do to make things better for myself.
DH and I have talked about spending more time there, maybe even moving there eventually. But not to cling to her, but to have our own life and interests too.
We have a DS aged 33 who has come back to live with us due to a health issue, so we are unable to make any moves now anyway.
I'd be grateful not to be told to "get a grip" or similar. That's what I've been trying to do.
I just feel so lost and don't know which way to turn.
I need to thank you in advance for getting to the end

@mathanxiety - thank you so much for your detailed explanation.

As one who moved in early middle age, I totally get what you mean about a move to America in middle age being similar to contemplat(ing) a self-inflicted existential crisis. I just wish someone had told me this twenty years ago.

@SweeneyToddler

I do not have any GC yet - they may or may not ever happen

Is anyone else beginning to feel sorry for this young couple?

It sounds like they’re pretty smart, focusing on careers and establishing a good life for themselves but in the background are two sets of ILs already planning their lives out right down to care for children they don’t have.

OMG don’t post the ins and outs of a ducks arse and you’re accused of drip feeding, do and it’s interfering and overbearing.

It’s relevant to the conversation OP was having with the thread.

@LindyLou2020 I know you’re not coming back, just wanted to give you a squeeze because while my kids are still young, I know I’d be devastated if they moved overseas. I can only hope I’d behave like you have, with dignity and keeping that devastation hidden. It’s wonderful she’s been able to spread her wings so far with such supportive parents.

But I would hope that she loves our close family enough that she wouldn’t even think of moving overseas. If you are close to your family and want to continue that closeness why would you do that? There’s a difference between being an overbearing parent who is too over involved and being someone on the other side of the world.

This part of your post completely contradicts the first part. She can do what she wants so long as she doesn't move abroad because that obviously means she doesn't love me enough. That's a very unhealthy attitude to have. Moving overseas isn't a personal reflection on someone's relationship. I'd move to the US in a heartbeat, it doesn't mean I don't love my family.

@name3958

But I would hope that she loves our close family enough that she wouldn’t even think of moving overseas. If you are close to your family and want to continue that closeness why would you do that? There’s a difference between being an overbearing parent who is too over involved and being someone on the other side of the world.

This part of your post completely contradicts the first part. She can do what she wants so long as she doesn't move abroad because that obviously means she doesn't love me enough. That's a very unhealthy attitude to have. Moving overseas isn't a personal reflection on someone's relationship. I'd move to the US in a heartbeat, it doesn't mean I don't love my family.

We aren’t going to agree and that’s fine but there is no way for example I would move to the USA to pursue my own life and leave my adult dc behind. Why doesn’t it work both ways? I do think it’s a sign of how you feel about your family and how close you are; and as a parent it really does feel like a kick in the face. If you want a really close relationship with your family then you wouldn’t consider moving overseas.

Op I’m on a different side to this. My DH is European but he, and his brother have made their lives in the U.K. he lived here for 10 years before we met.

A few thoughts:

• the grass isn’t necessarily greener. DHs parents visit for a week, we visit them. My mum who lives an hour away from us envies this. (Even though after a two night visit she’s had enough). DHs parents envy my parents closeness and frequent visits.

Truth is: I’ve worked it out and we spend about the same amount of time with each set of parents.

• accept this is her life, and she may stay there permanently. DHs parents still talk and act as if he is ‘away’ and may go back. They resist participating in our day to day lives, wanting to recreate versions there. Some of this is fun, creating / recreating traditions from their side. But it can feel like an attempt to erase our lives here and over write it with their wished reality. And as our kids get older they notice that birthday presents are kept for the next visit, not sent.
• agree having your own base there is important. it’s hard work hosting guests, being able to come and go on a timetable that works for you and then visit plenty while you are over there is best of both worlds. DH s parents could have done this but didn’t.
• could you rent / airbnb somewhere? Research now how it could work if / when they have children. Your daughter my be delighted to have your help in a long visit, but staying close by not in their house could be a smart way to make that .
• likewise DHs parents haven’t bothered learning English so they are excluded from much of our lives here.

Overall, my advice is, build a life for yourself there that you can live when visiting. Then visits will be fun, and can mean you are as close as ever.

Geography isn’t everything - I keep my emotional distance from my parents, even though they are an hour away, due to a tricky history.

Your relationship with your daughter sounds great. The distance could help maintain that, giving closeness as well as space between you.

Just to get back to the posters that found my post useful.. And found drawn to this thread...
I do think there are elements of the description of the situation that are expectations placed on the daughter to provide content for the life of the parent (mother). For instance, grandchildren who should be near. The daughter might not want to have kids or might not be able to; her very difficult to achieve career requires to live in a certain place in a world, but many mothers of the thread "naturally" expect children to stay close to them.

Children should be allowed to live their life whatever form it takes. They do not owe their parents the love they were given. They will give it to their children, not pay back. It's a one way system

I feel very strongly that love is not something that should be paid back. Yes, mothers structure their lives around children and then have gaping holes left inside when children are grown up. This is the nature of the motherhood trap. And then this selflessness that in the end requires the payback might start devouring the mother, the adult child.

My mother structured her entire life around me. She was a good mother and enabled me to do many things. I am eternally grateful to her. She also wasn't able to have any other content for her life since I've grown up. I feel constantly guilty. Guilt makes me angry. Because I should be allowed to live my life rather than sit next to my mother so that she can feel fulfilled. I would so much love her to be happy; but it seems that her happiness is only possible in my presence.

I am doing everything I can to have meaning in life that doesn't focus on my children. I focus on my children but my life is not describable entirely through them. I want to be a good mother to small children, and to adult children, which are very different skills.

@LindyLou2020
It doesn't work both ways because the relationship parent-child is not reversible. The child'd life literally depends on the parent at some point; not the other way around. It's an arrow of time.

Also, work can take it everywhere. Are you saying family is more important than anything in the world? Then you limit your children to a few versions of life and basically demand that they be like you. In my opinion, that is not love, it is a desire to replicate people like yourself so that you feel great. One might argue it is actually selfish. What is not selfish is to raise and love someone who is very different from you and wants to live a different life. And let them do it. This is selflessness

@microbius I agree parental love is one way, and you cannot expect or demand ‘pay back’

It’s awful how some parents guilt their adult children for leaving them.

I think you can and should be prepared to make the running to see your adult children, though. My PILs laziness with this means I have little sympathy for them.

If I was the OP I’d seek to spend plenty of time with my daughter where she is (and in a way she’s comfortable with) during my active retirement years. And explore building a life / holiday life there.

I’d make a decision on where to spend my older age later on, once I had a sense of how much I liked wherever dc were.

I disagree with previous posters that you cannot be happy on another culture when older. Some people can, some people cannot, it depends on your own personality, willingness and how much you like the culture. The US east coast around a university will have an ex pat community of brits ans Europeans, ans it’s English speaking. It’s doable if you approach it in the right spirit.

My PIL have now missed the opportunity to spend their later years close to us (when a decent care home near family is all you need) as they’ve not made the effort to get comfortable with the U.K.

Their choice, but they’re probably going to see out their days in a care home in their home culture to re with occasional visits from their adult dc.

I want to be a good mother to small children, and to adult children, which are very different skills.

This is so insightful. Thank you @microbius

Actually agree that the PILs are possibly insensitive - it’s hard to tease out what comes from our own emotions and what is genuinely passive-aggressive, possessive behaviour, with them actually taking over your child and wanting to cancel your child’s family and cultural background as much as possible - because THEY don’t want to lose their OWN child! Perhaps they are actually the ones who are guilty of the behaviours and motivations that some people are accusing you of - and others in a similar position. We try so hard not to seem possessive in any way, that we can easily be exploited by selfish spouses and in-laws of our adult children.

I was quite surprised to see this thread appear today as Active. I started it in November 2021, and felt it had run its course after a few days, so it had a more or less natural ending. So it's what's called a "zombie thread", isn't it?
I was a bit miffed at the time that some PPs implied that I was being possessive, trying to make my daughter feel guilty, etc, etc. Some posts were quite nasty, but then that's the nature of Mumsnet sometimes.
Whereas I had made it abundantly clear in my post that I was striving to be the exact OPPOSITE of that, but struggling with it, and I thought wise Mumsnetters might be able to help. But I also had some very helpful, insightful replies, that have remained with me, and I still think about. So, thank you to those people.
@Ozzieabroad - I don't know what prompted you to resurrected this thread, but your post is very astute!
I'm neither encouraging nor discouraging anyone from posting on this thread that I started just over a year ago, but if you want to comment, all I would ask is that you read my opening post carefully before you post. Thank you.

Certainly read your post carefully. Was replying to one aspect of it and to some of the subsequent less supportive replies. As to resurrecting a year-old thread - the issue is not a year-old issue, it will forever be a new issue for parents who are newly entering a situation where their adult children move far away.

Welcome back OP 😁

my take would be that you haven’t resolved your childhood trauma and that’s what this is about.

it’s raising issues about abandonment and whatever inlet needs you had during your childhood

sounds like you’ve been quite self aware of this in your parenting - but there is a difference between being self aware and actually resolving issues

so I would suggest you revisit healing your wounds from childhood

you will undoubtedly still have other “healthy” responses to your daughter loving.

but I don’t think your extreme responses are really about her - it’s that she did feel a hole and much as your might have tried not to be dysfunctional about your relationship- in some ways your relationship with her is about your trauma - at least as it’s manifesting now!