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Parents of adult children

Wondering how to stop worrying about your grown child? Speak to others in our Parents of Adult Children forum.

Daughter living in USA.

88 replies

LindyLou2020 · 08/11/2021 13:35

I wanted to NC for this but don't know how to. And I fear I'm not going to like some of the answers.....but I'm allowing myself to become quite depressed about this and need your help This may well be a long post, sorry! Please don't read if it will bore you. I am in the UK.
My daughter, now aged 30, has lived in the USA since 2012. She had previously spent 3 summers working in summer camps there whilst at uni here. She met and fell in love with a fellow camp worker, an American, and went to his university in mid-west USA to further her studies after graduating here - in 2012.
We got used to making trips there, interspersed with her trips home. We've obviously got to know (I'll call him Fred), very well, and get on with his parents.
They got married in the USA in 2019. I was privately hurt, but I knew it made sense for them as that's where their home is. But the guests consisted mainly of Fred's parents' family and friends, and friends of the couple, as only a few of our family and friends were able/willing to make the trip from the UK.
That hurt too, but I wasn't expecting anyone from here to attend at all, so I was thrilled when they could. And right from when the wedding date was announced, I was determined not to be a Mumzilla, so interfered with nothing, and helped with what my daughter wanted me to.
My daughter landed her first permanent job in academia this summer, after a couple of time-limited research posts. (I don't want to be too specific in case it's "outing"). She is very career-focussed and has worked extremely hard.
She chose it because it is at a good university, and it is on the east coast, meaning less of a time distance, and a direct flight. She and Fred moved there this summer
She knows I miss her terribly and wish we were in the same place, but also knows that I'm proud of her, and think it's so important to do work that you love, if you can.
I coped with her being there reasonably well, but with many wobbles, until this summer. The job itself has lent an air of permanence to everything, whereas before I think I was in denial and hoped she may come back.
What has really hit me so hard 'though, is that they are now living around a one and a half hour drive away from Fred's parents. I just can't get past this, and am ashamed to be consumed with jealousy.
They are good people, very family-orientated, but quite overpowering.
Fred's mum has already referred to my daughter as her daughter, and told her she loves her, on Facebook. But, they are quite openly and verbally affectionate in general, and tell DH and I they love us too!
So I try to accept that's how they are.
Fred has quite a large extended family, whereas my only family are my DH, DS, and DD. DH has siblings but they are not close at all and meet up rarely.
Already Fred's parents have seen Fred and my daughter around half a dozen times since the move. They mind the dog when the couple are away. Now that UK-USA travel is open again, we'll be able to visit. DD and Fred came here for 3 weeks in the summer, and will be here for Christmas.
My DD and I had, and have, a close, loving, relationship. We did so much together when she was a child/teen. She can tell me anything, and I can tell her how I feel, whilst assuring her it's for me to own and deal with, not her. She is aware of her in-laws' propensity to possessiveness and assures me they won't replace me and DH!
Because my own family of origin was lonely and unhappy, I invested heavily in my own children to ensure their childhood was different. I was very aware of being in danger of wanting them to meet my emotional needs, and be my antidote to loneliness, so I've deliberately encouraged them to be their own people and be adventurous.
I've read so much stuff regarding the "empty nest syndrome", and regarding people who are in similar situations, in places like Gransnet and the like, to try to help myself.
I know all the theory. We give them wings to fly. Let them go. They have their own lives, etc, etc.
But theory does not ease my feelings of bereavement.
I am trying to turn a skill into a career. I have started a new exercise regime. I keep in touch with friends. I'm learning a new sport. We Facetime, WhatsApp, etc. I'm trying so hard to forge my own life. I've been having counselling since August because I couldn't sort this out myself. I don't have any other family. I don't want to be this jealous person who could easily become bitter.
I swing between catastrophising - "DD will become closer to Fred's family to us and I'll lose her", and fantasising - "We'll go and live there and be together all the time". Please don't accuse me of being childish - I already know that I am and need to grow up.
I'm embarrassed to think I've opened myself up far too much by posting all this. But I would just love some thoughts as to what else I can do to make things better for myself.
DH and I have talked about spending more time there, maybe even moving there eventually. But not to cling to her, but to have our own life and interests too.
We have a DS aged 33 who has come back to live with us due to a health issue, so we are unable to make any moves now anyway.
I'd be grateful not to be told to "get a grip" or similar. That's what I've been trying to do.
I just feel so lost and don't know which way to turn.
I need to thank you in advance for getting to the end Flowers

OP posts:
lou01827 · 09/11/2021 07:06

I am the daughter in this scenario as well and wanted to say that, to me, @microbius 's post hit the nail on the head. Thank you so much microbius I actually really learned from your post- my mother is the same but I don't think I had made sense of it yet in the way you put it so succinctly.

@LindyLou2020, to me the post wasn't worded offensively at all. It is obvious that this poster was explaining her perspective as the daughter in the scenario as a way of being helpful. I wonder whether you reading the post as offensive means it has hit a nerve in you that has made you feel a bit defensive? I hear you on having wanted specifically to make your children their own persons because of your own unhappy childhood and I think that's incredibly mature and courageous of you - well done Flowers Maybe what @microbius has said is now the next challenge on this journey to conquer - a thought that is still difficult to allow right now (as indicated by the defensiveness) but that you can process as well with time, and then all of you will benefit immeasurably from the wisdom that will come from it?

beccahamlet · 09/11/2021 07:24

I have been in a similar situation to you and 100% sympathise. But let me tell you a story which might change your perspective. It changed mine.
My Daughter had little ones and I missed them all terribly. They were thousands of miles away.
One day I was out walking añ saw a local grandmother picnicking with her son and grandkids. I was consumed with the unfairness of it.
A couple of days later I found out that that granny had had a terminal cancer diagnosis and was spending as much time as poss with family. She died just a few weeks later.......
Warm wishes to you.

name3958 · 09/11/2021 07:39

Everything you say is extremely understandable and it must be hard to navigate, the only thing I struggle with in your post(s) is how dismissive you are to your DS. It sounds like he needs you atm and then you describe him as "pissing off" you didn't describe your daughter's departure in that way. You're coming across as feeling entitled to your daughter as she's a girl and less invested in your son who's male and not satisfying your feelings of loneliness, so much so you'd leave him for her. I see this so very often and do think it's quite sad.

ssd · 09/11/2021 08:11

It seems to me like you are concerned that the in laws are taking over your dds and freds life a bit too much. I guess you are going by what your dd tells you? I did wonder if she sort of only wants to tell you the negative points of them as she feels the positive points would hurt you too much ? Would it feel better if you knew more about the inlaws and not just what your dd feels she can tell you? Maybe getting a relationship with them would help you see they'll never replace you.

ssd · 09/11/2021 08:22

@name3958

Everything you say is extremely understandable and it must be hard to navigate, the only thing I struggle with in your post(s) is how dismissive you are to your DS. It sounds like he needs you atm and then you describe him as "pissing off" you didn't describe your daughter's departure in that way. You're coming across as feeling entitled to your daughter as she's a girl and less invested in your son who's male and not satisfying your feelings of loneliness, so much so you'd leave him for her. I see this so very often and do think it's quite sad.
I agree with this post too. Obviously you don't want to go into detail too much online, but your ds has needed his parents to be his carer the past year due to health issues yet he's barely mentioned. Whereas i almost know the daughters life story. I get mums and daughters are close, but i wonder if the emotional detachment you felt to your own family when young is now being played out with your son? Do you explore this in counselling or is it brushed aside as less important to you?
ApolloandDaphne · 09/11/2021 08:32

I know it is not quite the same but my DD1 and her DP used to live in London which is a fair distance from us and her DPs parents. This year they moved to another city and now live a two minute walk from his DP and still 6 hours from us. I know they see his DP often and they look after their cats for them and if there are ever and grandchildren they will be more involved. However I also know this was the right move for them and they will be happy there and at the end of the day their happiness trumps my need to be involved with their day to day life. I am pleased my DDs (DD2 lives in London) are independent young women making their own way in life as I feel it reflects well on me as parent. Try and see your DDs life choices as a positive and keep in touch with her as best you can. Let her live her life.

LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 09:30

Morning everyone.....
@microbius - thank you for your further posts!
@Luredbyapomegranate - I'm going to read YOUR post again too.You are so right about gratitude. I'm good at being a pessimist, not so much at being thankful.
@lou01827 You are right in that @microbius' first post did make me feel defensive!

OP posts:
Terribleluck · 09/11/2021 09:32

I'm going to say in the kindest possible way... I'm your daughter so to speak. I crossed the pond to start my adult life over here... If my mother told me all of that I would just tell her to get a grip and that it's my life.

LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 09:43

@name3958

Everything you say is extremely understandable and it must be hard to navigate, the only thing I struggle with in your post(s) is how dismissive you are to your DS. It sounds like he needs you atm and then you describe him as "pissing off" you didn't describe your daughter's departure in that way. You're coming across as feeling entitled to your daughter as she's a girl and less invested in your son who's male and not satisfying your feelings of loneliness, so much so you'd leave him for her. I see this so very often and do think it's quite sad.
@name3958 Sorry, my comment about my DS "pissing off" was meant to be light-hearted. I didn't mean to come across as dismissive - I love him so much too. And as yet I have know idea where he will end up - near us, (NW England),or with his GF in London, or neither. DH and I have cared for him here for 18 months, so no way are we less invested in him. I have made it clear that I DON'T want to feel entitled to my daughter, and certainly DON'T want my son to satisfy my feelings of loneliness. I asked for help on MN because I knew I was in danger of doing both of those things. I think you have misconstrued my posts.
OP posts:
LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 09:52

@mathanxiety
I said in my first post that I may not like some of the answers, and your second post proved me right, regarding your thoughts on moving to the USA. You told me things I didn't want to hear! But it was honest and I thank you for taking the time to write it.

And just in case I've inadvertently confused people, I do not have any GC yet - they may or may not ever happen.

OP posts:
Bagelsandbrie · 09/11/2021 09:53

@Terribleluck

I'm going to say in the kindest possible way... I'm your daughter so to speak. I crossed the pond to start my adult life over here... If my mother told me all of that I would just tell her to get a grip and that it's my life.
I think that’s a bit mean.

It’s easy to say that when you’re the daughter in the situation and / or you don’t have adult children. When you’ve spent your life raising your children and are really close to them they become your life, yes of course you should have your own life as well, but any loving parent makes their children the centre of their world. It’s extremely difficult to let go, but even more so if they suddenly decide to go and live on the other side of the world. It’s like all those years of raising them, loving them, has been for nothing because suddenly you hardly see them and they’ve been uprooted from your life. It’s very difficult and something people just don’t really understand until they’re in that situation.

LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 09:54

@Terribleluck

I'm going to say in the kindest possible way... I'm your daughter so to speak. I crossed the pond to start my adult life over here... If my mother told me all of that I would just tell her to get a grip and that it's my life.
@Terribleluck

OUCH!!! That wasn't in the kindest possible way at all.....
Have you actually RTWT?

OP posts:
Bagelsandbrie · 09/11/2021 09:56

My ex dh upped and moved to the USA and his Mum and Dad bang on at my adult dd to stay in touch with him because he’s “so far away and misses so much” - well no one forced him to move out there. I think there’s a weird sense of entitlement from people who move overseas that everyone should bend over backwards to keep in touch with them. If they wanted to keep that close family bond they shouldn’t have moved out there in the first place. Sorry that’s a bit of a rant on a tangent at my own situation but it irritates me so much. My dd is very angry at her Dad for moving to the USA (we split up when she was 6 months old, my choice, and he met an American woman about 10 years ago and moved to the USA then).

name3958 · 09/11/2021 09:56

but any loving parent makes their children the centre of their world

That is not the pre-requisite for loving parenthood, in fact I find it quite selfish. My mum followed me across the country and honestly it's overwhelming, I feel responsible for her happiness and it's completely stifling. My children are not the centre of my world, I will not put that responsibility on them.

Bagelsandbrie · 09/11/2021 09:58

@name3958

but any loving parent makes their children the centre of their world

That is not the pre-requisite for loving parenthood, in fact I find it quite selfish. My mum followed me across the country and honestly it's overwhelming, I feel responsible for her happiness and it's completely stifling. My children are not the centre of my world, I will not put that responsibility on them.

I don’t think it’s selfish. It’s the ultimate in selflessness if anything.

I don’t think children should feel obliged to live in their parents pockets forever - indeed you want them to have their own lives, but there’s a difference between having their own life and moving to the other side of the world.

theleafandnotthetree · 09/11/2021 10:06

@mathanxiety. What an interesting and insightful post, thank you

LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 10:06

@ssd

It seems to me like you are concerned that the in laws are taking over your dds and freds life a bit too much. I guess you are going by what your dd tells you? I did wonder if she sort of only wants to tell you the negative points of them as she feels the positive points would hurt you too much ? Would it feel better if you knew more about the inlaws and not just what your dd feels she can tell you? Maybe getting a relationship with them would help you see they'll never replace you.
@ssd

That's a very fair point, something I need to think about. DH and I do have a relationship with PILs, and we have stayed with them and vice-versa.
We have actually witnessed their interference and at times overpowering behaviour.
I am trying hard to understand that's how they are, and deliberately refrain from trying to compete with them. And I came on here owning and admitting my feelings of jealousy - but I'm working on not wanting to feel like that.

OP posts:
SweeneyToddler · 09/11/2021 10:18

I do not have any GC yet - they may or may not ever happen

Is anyone else beginning to feel sorry for this young couple?

It sounds like they’re pretty smart, focusing on careers and establishing a good life for themselves but in the background are two sets of ILs already planning their lives out right down to care for children they don’t have.

name3958 · 09/11/2021 10:20

I don’t think it’s selfish. It’s the ultimate in selflessness if anything. I don’t think children should feel obliged to live in their parents pockets forever - indeed you want them to have their own lives, but there’s a difference between having their own life and moving to the other side of the world.

I can only assume you haven't been on the receiving end of a relationship like that, putting someone front and centre is not good for people, for children I don't think it gives them unrealistic expectations and as adults you are putting a lot of responsibility on them. It isn't selfless at all.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 09/11/2021 10:21

I live 90 miles from my DS and DDIL and my DDIL’s mum lives locally. She provides childcare for my DGS. She loves my DS very much, and he loves her.

I do sometimes feel that I have in some way failed him (I moved away for work) and am sad that I do not have the closeness with them that they do with DDIL’s family. But, it is what it is, and am very happy that DS is loved.

It does help that my DIL’s DM is lovely and thoughtful (she tried to engineer me being in the bubble during the lockdowns because she could at least see DGS and talk to DIL on the doorstep), and of course I can see them fairly frequently anyway. But I get what you are feeling.

Practically, you are unlikely to be able to emigrate for various administrative reasons. But you could perhaps downsize and increase the frequency of your visits?

name3958 · 09/11/2021 10:21

*realistic

LindyLou2020 · 09/11/2021 10:23

HI EVERYONE

I started this thread around 13.30 yesterday.
At first I thought nobody was going to reply, then it took off and is still going strong.
MN can be a vipers' nest at times, but on the whole this, for me, has been MN at its best.
I spent all yesterday afternoon and evening on this, and I'm here this morning, still in my dressing-gown.
I've read so many threads where the OP starts one, then disappears or hardly replies, which I think is rude.
So I wanted to reply as much as I could to PP's who took the trouble to engage with me.
There's been lots of different opinions, insights, experiences, and wisdom, and you've all given me lots to think about - some things I'd rather not think about, but know I need to.
I actually need to get on with my day now and also do the things I neglected yesterday.
I don't think there's much more that can be said on this topic - I could keep banging on about my issues for another day, but NO, enough is enough.
So I am going to sign off from this thread now.
Not before I thank each and every one of you for your help Flowers

OP posts:
Ozanj · 09/11/2021 10:26

@LindyLou2020

I wanted to NC for this but don't know how to. And I fear I'm not going to like some of the answers.....but I'm allowing myself to become quite depressed about this and need your help This may well be a long post, sorry! Please don't read if it will bore you. I am in the UK. My daughter, now aged 30, has lived in the USA since 2012. She had previously spent 3 summers working in summer camps there whilst at uni here. She met and fell in love with a fellow camp worker, an American, and went to his university in mid-west USA to further her studies after graduating here - in 2012. We got used to making trips there, interspersed with her trips home. We've obviously got to know (I'll call him Fred), very well, and get on with his parents. They got married in the USA in 2019. I was privately hurt, but I knew it made sense for them as that's where their home is. But the guests consisted mainly of Fred's parents' family and friends, and friends of the couple, as only a few of our family and friends were able/willing to make the trip from the UK. That hurt too, but I wasn't expecting anyone from here to attend at all, so I was thrilled when they could. And right from when the wedding date was announced, I was determined not to be a Mumzilla, so interfered with nothing, and helped with what my daughter wanted me to. My daughter landed her first permanent job in academia this summer, after a couple of time-limited research posts. (I don't want to be too specific in case it's "outing"). She is very career-focussed and has worked extremely hard. She chose it because it is at a good university, and it is on the east coast, meaning less of a time distance, and a direct flight. She and Fred moved there this summer She knows I miss her terribly and wish we were in the same place, but also knows that I'm proud of her, and think it's so important to do work that you love, if you can. I coped with her being there reasonably well, but with many wobbles, until this summer. The job itself has lent an air of permanence to everything, whereas before I think I was in denial and hoped she may come back. What has really hit me so hard 'though, is that they are now living around a one and a half hour drive away from Fred's parents. I just can't get past this, and am ashamed to be consumed with jealousy. They are good people, very family-orientated, but quite overpowering. Fred's mum has already referred to my daughter as her daughter, and told her she loves her, on Facebook. But, they are quite openly and verbally affectionate in general, and tell DH and I they love us too! So I try to accept that's how they are. Fred has quite a large extended family, whereas my only family are my DH, DS, and DD. DH has siblings but they are not close at all and meet up rarely. Already Fred's parents have seen Fred and my daughter around half a dozen times since the move. They mind the dog when the couple are away. Now that UK-USA travel is open again, we'll be able to visit. DD and Fred came here for 3 weeks in the summer, and will be here for Christmas. My DD and I had, and have, a close, loving, relationship. We did so much together when she was a child/teen. She can tell me anything, and I can tell her how I feel, whilst assuring her it's for me to own and deal with, not her. She is aware of her in-laws' propensity to possessiveness and assures me they won't replace me and DH! Because my own family of origin was lonely and unhappy, I invested heavily in my own children to ensure their childhood was different. I was very aware of being in danger of wanting them to meet my emotional needs, and be my antidote to loneliness, so I've deliberately encouraged them to be their own people and be adventurous. I've read so much stuff regarding the "empty nest syndrome", and regarding people who are in similar situations, in places like Gransnet and the like, to try to help myself. I know all the theory. We give them wings to fly. Let them go. They have their own lives, etc, etc. But theory does not ease my feelings of bereavement. I am trying to turn a skill into a career. I have started a new exercise regime. I keep in touch with friends. I'm learning a new sport. We Facetime, WhatsApp, etc. I'm trying so hard to forge my own life. I've been having counselling since August because I couldn't sort this out myself. I don't have any other family. I don't want to be this jealous person who could easily become bitter. I swing between catastrophising - "DD will become closer to Fred's family to us and I'll lose her", and fantasising - "We'll go and live there and be together all the time". Please don't accuse me of being childish - I already know that I am and need to grow up. I'm embarrassed to think I've opened myself up far too much by posting all this. But I would just love some thoughts as to what else I can do to make things better for myself. DH and I have talked about spending more time there, maybe even moving there eventually. But not to cling to her, but to have our own life and interests too. We have a DS aged 33 who has come back to live with us due to a health issue, so we are unable to make any moves now anyway. I'd be grateful not to be told to "get a grip" or similar. That's what I've been trying to do. I just feel so lost and don't know which way to turn. I need to thank you in advance for getting to the end Flowers
Then when they start trying for kids the lure of a safer UK with free healthcare, cheaper universities, cheaper housing with shorter commutes, more regulated childcare, may well drag them back. That’s probably why her Mil is making such a production about things - she is scared of losing access to the future gc.
Bagelsandbrie · 09/11/2021 10:36

@name3958

I don’t think it’s selfish. It’s the ultimate in selflessness if anything. I don’t think children should feel obliged to live in their parents pockets forever - indeed you want them to have their own lives, but there’s a difference between having their own life and moving to the other side of the world.

I can only assume you haven't been on the receiving end of a relationship like that, putting someone front and centre is not good for people, for children I don't think it gives them unrealistic expectations and as adults you are putting a lot of responsibility on them. It isn't selfless at all.

Actually I have. My own Mum was like this and it was difficult. To the point I actually didn’t go to university because I felt responsible for her - I lived with my Mum until I was 32 (!) through my first marriage and having dd as well. So I do “get it” despite what you might assume about me. But despite this I still parent in a similar way, although I make it clear to my own dd now that she isn’t responsible for my happiness and I can indeed manage and cope without her. She went to university this year and it’s been difficult adjusting because we are so close (I still have younger dc at home) and I would NEVER tell her not to go somewhere / do something because of me. I want her to live her life, and I have only ever told her how proud I am of her (she doesn’t see me crying in the car at times because I miss her so much and I wouldn’t dream of telling her)! But I would hope that she loves our close family enough that she wouldn’t even think of moving overseas. If you are close to your family and want to continue that closeness why would you do that? There’s a difference between being an overbearing parent who is too over involved and being someone on the other side of the world.
PippiStrongstocking · 09/11/2021 10:45

I’m on the other side of this and do feel some guilt.

But—I try to tell myself there’s some advantages for the kids. Going to my parent’s home is an adventure, international flight and long weeks spent in a completely foreign country.

My parents get to see my kids in a more holistic way—they are part of the everyday routine for weeks on end, instead of a few hours on the weekend. That’s a really different experience, you’d only get it if you lived together.

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