How do you cope with 2 under 4? I can't.

[aglassofwater]

Today was a particularly bad day. DH was sick and I looked after the DC's all day on my own. I have a 7mo DD and a 3.5yo. DD has a cold. I am in floods and can't stop. I feel utterly useless. I wish I could be better at this.

I feel like I never get anything done. We are always late to DS's nursery school. I have washing piles around the house that I haven't been able to put away.

Every night there is a great mayhem while I try to make tea, look after a fretful and tired DD and get something for DS to do. My DH is lovely and v good with the kids. He comes home exhausted and I really want to make sure he has a nice dinner to come home to and a cuppa at least. In practise this rarely happens. We hardly see each other. We never have sex because I was badly stitched and its painful. I am so tired I never really even think about it. I worry that we are separate people now.

I feel like I am neglecting DD when I am trying to get stuff done in the house. She won't wean and is still breast feeding, she won't take a bottle. I have tried many times and other people have also tried.

We don't live near family so have no extra support. DD goes into nursery once a week so I can do keeping in touch days at work but so far I have only managed a few hours in work due to feeding/being exhausted. I also have used the time to run errands in town. So DD has only been in nursery from say 10.30am til 2pm.

Today I realised I have not had a cuppa or food since 11am.

I feel like every day its just work non stop til they are in bed. Then I get about 2 hours where I catch up with some jobs and have 5 mins to myself before I have to feed dd again at 9.30/10pm. She is lately up about 3 times in the night.

I am sure loads of people have much much worse situations than me but I just can't do this and I don't know how to get better at it and I don't know how people do it.

I just don't know what to do.

Are the kids in bed? Go have a bath, a glass of wine and get yourself to bed.

I have 2 also (a 4 yo and 15 mo) and it is bloody hard work. I'd say, dial down your expectation - just do what absolutely needs doing, get a cleaner in if you can once a week (will make a world of difference and save your sanity), if you can batch cook one evening a week (while DH deals with kids) then you can freeze and just warm up a couple of meals for your DD/DS when needed - otherwise do easy quick meals (pasta and veg, stirfry, jacket potato and salad) for dinner that take minimal time to prepare. If DS will tolerate it, stick him in a sling while you're preparing dinner, get DD colouring (if she likes that) or helping set table or make dinner in little ways (help wash veg/help put some dry pasta in a bowl that you can tip into boiling water later) or let her watch some Cbeebies while you do stuff - and make sure you look after yourself. Eat with the kids when they do - just fruit if you're not hungry but at least you'll have eaten something.

Everyone feels overwhelmed at times, particularly after a bad day. You're not alone and you are a good mum. Take care.

It is very very hard, glass. We all just sort of muddle through.

If you need to do paid work, you should really consider more time in nursery for dd if possible.

I am so sorry for you. You are having a very tough time.

However, you can do it. It just feels as if you can't.

I have a two-year age gap between mine, and it was hard work. I also have no local family, and never used nurseries/babysitters/anything at all. My DCs were four and six before they were looked after for half an hour by a very good friend's nanny while I went to parents' afternoon.

The thing that really, really helped me when they were little was a very firm routine. I know other people think they're the work of the devil, but it worked for me. At seven months, DD would go for a sleep after lunch for at least an hour. If she didn't sleep, she would still stay in her/our room. That way, I had an hour with just DS. When they were a bit older, I let them watch TV for half an hour after lunch so I could do something for myself for that amount of time (like have a quiet cuppa!) As they didn't otherwise watch TV, it was a novelty.

I hope someone can advise you about bf. One reason I didn't bf DD was that I thought I wouldn't be able to cope with the DCs if I also had to contend with constant feeding and sleepless nights. But a bf expert might be able to advise you there. I weaned both of mine at 4 months (again, a sin on Mumsnet), and had them both in bed, asleep, by ten to seven every night from very early on. That way DH and I could eat together and have an evening together (though it was mostly spent on separate PCs!) Would it be possible for you to feed the children something very straightforward and stress-free - while they're still small - before your DH gets home, and then cook for him once they are in bed? That might be less stressful for you than trying to do it all at once, at the grottiest time of day.

If your DD won't take a bottle, will she take a cup? I used to use the tops of bottles as cups, and that worked very well - but, again, someone else might be able to advise you better.

I sympathise re. sex, too. We are still not back to normal on that score. I wish I'd had two elective c-sections now!!

Thanks stinky and dog. Have got wine.

Getting on this thread for advice because I could well be you in 6 months time. DC2 due in a month.

I'm sure you're doing a grand job. Everyone has days where it gets on top of them.

I had pain for ten months after DD. It did go away and yours may do to.

Maybe try and give everyone, including yourself, 20 mintues of individual attention a day? It seems as if you;'re feeling spread too thin as everyone is compromised. Might help?

And get a cleaner if you can afford it. I intend to. I'm 35 weeks pg ATM and I want to cry at the dust in my house. It's just the way it is though. I cannot do it.

awww, aglassofwater, there is this horrible phase with toddler+baby and sounds like you're right in the middle of it. BUT it does only take one thing to improve e.g. DD not waking up so you're not so exhausted. I so agree with everything dinky's said, you've got to lower your expectations of things being done & perfect at this point & surely DS is able to do more hours at nursery as he'd have a free place for 12-15 hours a week? I think tackling the evening meal is probably the most important thing for you, god knows it's arsenic hour. Could you try to make it earlier in the day instead when dd having nap (ds could help, my 3yo does) then just reheat?
Do you have to keep in touch with work? Aren't you actually on mat leave?
Re: dd not taking a bottle, would she take a cup instead? Might be worth looking at the feeding threads where the experts can advise?
You are not useful, you're not doing badly at it, it's just hard and you're not getting enough sleep. All you can do is keep on keeping on and things will slowly get better. If family not nearby can MIL/DM come to visit for a few days?

I feel for you. I really do. I have a 2.3 DS1 and 7-month-old DS2. I have had such a bad few months as well. DS1 is already a challenging toddler, lovely but very hard work and he already goes to nursery 3 days a week. DS2 had reflux and we don't have much support either. I was so at my last tether a few weeks ago that I finally made the very difficult decision to put DS2 in nursery for one day a week just so I could have a break. He started a week ago and sod's law, suddenly everything has fallen into place. DS2 finally stopped the big throw-ups and after trying to wean him for almost 2 months with no success (met with mouth clamped shut or if I get anything down him, he promptly throws it all up again!), in the last few days, he suddenly started opening his mouth to eat! I couldn't believe it. And DS2 is almost about to crawl too. Suddenly all my worries about DS2 have mostly dissipated and I'm starting to enjoy him. And it's really in the last week that things have suddenly got much better. So don't despair, things will get better and it might do so suddenly one day.

We have a cleaner that comes in once a week and that is a saviour. When we only had DS1, we also had a regular babysitting arrangement with a really good friend where we take turns every fortnight so we could go out with our DHs once a month. And we are about to start that up again. You need to talk to your DH as well. From our experience, we knew that the first year is pretty much a 'write-off' in terms of it being tiring and us not being able to really spend time with each other but we also know things will get better. Good luck, it's all about survival at this stage.. But things will get much, much better.

A friend of mine who has a baby and a toddler gave me one very sincerely felt piece of advice: get out of the house. Anywhere. Then you can't see the piles of washing and don't think about them.

It will get better and you will get more used to having 2 - I found the transition from 1 to 2 an absolute nightmare (have got 4 DCs now - so things do improve!)

Firstly, relax - don't worry about the house, washing etc, just get a bit done when you can. Don't feel guilty about leaving DD for a bit while you do stuff - she will be fine without you for a bit!

When you do get round to cooking something, do a MASSIVE batch of it - i.e. bolognaise sauce - takes no extra effort, but lasts for many meals.

As other poster said - don't worry about using a bit of Ceebeebies while you get things done.

Really think you should see the doctor re the bad stitching - I have a friend who had to go back into theatre to have everything sorted out. Not ideal, but probably worth it in the long run.

I am sure your DH understands - he sounds lovely!

Take lots of time to have fun - if I get bogged down during the day, I take them out to the park, see friends, go to a coffee shop and eat cake - everything always seems better after cake.

Sorry if that was all a bit jumbled - like you, have had wine!! (It is Saturday night!)

It is very hard, I agree.

With any little ones who are disturbing your sleep it is impossible to feel that you are ever on top of things during the day, because you are so tired.

My sister and I were both in your situation at the same time and came to the conclusion that something has to slide. It is either going to be your children (highly unlikely); your marriage; the state of your house or your health. I choose not to live in a show-home. She decided to put herself last and caught every cold, tummy bug etc. that was going. We did both make it though, and so will you.

If your DH is feeling better tomorrow, get him to take the dcs out for a walk. The fresh air will do them good and an hour's peace and quiet will do wonders for you.

Good luck.

Sometimes a friend of mine with a similar age toddler do an exchange. Everyone congregates in one house, and the person whose house it is gets to go and do something - like putting away the washing - that has been nagging at them for an hour or two. Less onerous than full-on babysitting as mum is still around for her DC should the need arise but mum still gets time to get something DONE.

Have you got a friend you could do this with?

I have 2, a 4 yo and 2 yo. I totally understand, and have been exactly where you are! I too don't have family support and find it real tough too! Firstly, I'd say don't put so much pressure on yourself. I try to prioritise things. If your having a rough day, does it really matter if the ironing doesn't get done today? If I feel myself getting stressed I now put tv on for DC's and have a cuppa! There's nothing that cant wait 10 mins! My housework gets staggered throughout the week now, Since taking the pressure off myself to be the 'perfect' wife/mother and allowing the house to stay messy somedays, I cope a lot better these days!

It is undoubtably hard, but you are on the cusp of it getting much better. Once my DS started crawling, he and DD (2.5y older than DS) actually started playing together! It was a revelation!

All of a sudden I didn't have to worry about entertaining DS constantly cos DD did it for me. There were actually times when I sat down with a cup of tea whilst they entertained each other (and this was amazing as DD was also super-clingy with me until this time). And all of a sudden you realise that having 2 is almost easier (some of the time!) than having 1! They are now 14mo and nearly 4, and it is totally manageable and mostly a pleasure (I can say that now cos they're both asleep in bed!).

You are nearly through the worst. YOU CAN DO IT!

I agree about the batch cooking.

I have a 15.5 month gap between mine, they are now 1 and 2. It is hard work but so worth while once you get used to it and learn to cope a bit better.

For meal times - Is your table in the kitchen (we have just moved and found this made a HUGE difference to the stress at mealtimes!) If it is, I would get your older one doing something at the table - maybe some drawing, stickers etc (try to vary it to keep it interesting) while baby sits in the high chair with some toys or a bit of bread or something to munch on, while you cook the proper dinner. Don't do anything complicated though, just something easy. Easy meals can be healthy too - today we had cod (frozen, cooks just in the microwave) with some vege and potatoes that I shoved on the stove before I got the kids at the table, so they were cooking while I got them sorted.

Bedtime is when I use cbeebies i'm afraid!

If you get out to toddler groups etc as much as you can then you will feel a lot more human with the company, and the kids don't make as much mess at home. And you are away from all the things that do need doing.

A happy Mummy usually means happy children, so make sure you look after yourself

Oh, and for what its worth - I have piles, piles and more piles of washing that needs putting away. Its just all up in my room, where nobody goes except me, and I don't go there till I am going to bed, and by that time, I don't care

I set up the ironing board and iron in the kitchen when I only have DS2 at home (DS1's nursery day) when the washing is on the line. I check periodically through the day when I have time (DS2's naps etc) and take off the dry washing throughout the day and iron them there and then. That way, I never have a huge pile of ironing.

It is very hard there is no doubt about that. I have a 2.4yr old DS1 and 7mth old DS2. I agree with the other posters about perhaps dropping your standards and congratulating yourself at the end of the day for what has gone right rather than what has gone wrong.

Re: the housework, it's not important but on the other hand, if you're anything like me, I get more stressed if the house is really untidy so for me it's important to keep the house relatively clean and tidy. It depends on your priorities. I find I can keep on top of things if I am very organised. I can clean bathroom while DS1 is in bath, holding DS2 if necessary. I do the gardening a little bit at a time, I let DS1 run round with a watering can and his plastic spade while I sweep and plant etc. I put DS2 in his high chair in the garden with some toys or a snack which will keep him happy for a while.

I do really convenient cooking- I buy frozen portions of veg for DS1 which can be chucked in the microwave and done in 3 mins. Add a bit of pasta and cheese. I am really lucky in that me mum kindly offered to do a load of frozen mashed meals for DS1, you know the thing, mashed carrot and potato, cauliflower cheese etc. Would one of your relatives be able to do this for you taking the pressure off a little?

Your DH sounds lovely, would he be able to take the boys for a walk for half hour after getting in so you can get a nice tea sorted, if that's important to you?

Finally, do you think it's possible that you may be depressed? Could you visit the GP?

I also get DS1 to hoover up any crumbs he has made (he likes doing this), put nappies in bin for me, put his plate in the sink etc. It all helps!

Oh and as soon as kids are in bed, between 7-8, I have a quick tidy round, wash up, so that when I get up the house is tidy. Start the day off less stressful I find.

Are you in the UK? You should get at least 12.5 hours of free childcare for your DD at nursery or pre-school if you want to.

I have 3 DCs (3.8, 1.8 and 4 months) and I feel useless most days, but I find life easier if I can meet up with other mums and the children play together - either at our house or theirs - that takes care of entertaining the older ones quite a bit. DS1 goes to pre-school 2 half days a week in term-time and DS1 and DS2 both go to nursery one day a week so that I can get a few things done (or go to a coffee shop and meet friends with DD). My hardest thing is juggling things so that I can spend time doing things with each at their own level (DS2 tends to disrupt DS1's jigsaws, games and building projects) - so if anyone has tips on how to juggle children of different ages ...?

Make sure you eat though - especially if you are breastfeeding. I used to forget to eat quite often but DD stopped putting on weight and my health visitor prescribed porridge (and hot chocolate) - the DSs and I have porridge with dates for breakfast together which means I no longer forget breakfast.

I only have 1 and sometimes really really struggle. There is great advice on here. If you can - pay a cleaner to get your house sorted every now and then.

I hope you can get a good nights sleep tonight!

Even though I still feel really guilty about it, the £20 a week it costs for 2 hours cleaning is a massive priority for us! I hardly do any other cleaning at all (just basic day-to-day stuff)and even though it means my house is very far from perfect just knowing that the 'public areas' are dealt with once a week takes off so much pressure!

You sound like a lovely caring mum!

I've got a 3.5 year old and a 13 month old and agree with the poster who said that once they start playing together it does get easier. Now that my youngest is crawling and a bit more robust, the two of them have a whale of a time on the floor together.

I tend to involve them in jobs. My oldest loves running around putting washing away and is a pretty reliable duster, too. Obviously his attention span is low but it keeps him occupied and at least something gets done. I'm also from the get out of the house at least once a day school, too. DS has a balance bike so he can whizz about on that while I walk briskly with the buggy. Great for getting a bit of exercise!

It does get easier and when I see the boys playing together it is worth it. The love between them is amazing.

Thanks everyone. Have had one glass of wine now and have stopped blubbing.

Sadly I am this crap even though

1. I have a cleaner who comes for 1 hour a week
2. We are in wales so DS goes to pre-school/nursery 4 days a week even though he is 3.5. He goes full time at age 4.
3. I am on maternity leave and have been trying to do the Keeping in Touch days that you get paid for, to get a bit extra cash and to keep up my profile at work. I had a real bad time when I went back to work after DS so wanted to do everything possible to avoid that this time. I may stop bothering with the keeping in touch days as finding them a bit stressful.
4. I am seeing a consultant about the stitching. He sent me for an MRI and I have another consultation in June.
5. DS does have some nice friends where he goes to tea and his friends come here too.

Am taking on board the evening meal info - thanks.
Appreciate hearing that others find this hard to.

Am feeling so much better. Just needed a rant and lots of wine. Thanks again.

Thanks for all the lovely posts. Have just read through more. Its so nice to hear from people in a similar position. I don't have friends with 2 dc's locally.

I am going to try to get DS to do some jobs. He is v stubborn and often won't do a thing I ask but he just has to. He will pick the heads off the dandelions in the lawn though .

Well I might just have a hot chocolate...