Is this neglect? I am concerned

[andratx]

I have a neighbour with a 20 month old girl. On the surface they are a middle class family with good jobs, nice car etc. But I am worried that the girl is being neglected.

I would appreciate your honest opinions as to whether I am being over-zealous and should mind my own business, or whether it is worth getting involved with a call to the authorities?

1. grossly overfed - she is now the weight of a 3 to 4 year old, but is only 20 months old
2. often poorly protected from the weather - eg, she is never covered in the rain, and was taken out as a tiny baby with no protection in really hot weather
3. often bruised with strange explanations
4. regularly left to play alone in dangerous circumstances eg I once saw the baby aged about 15 months with a half full wine bottle....then she tripped and it broke. Mother had been sat there doing nothing.
5. constantly covered in dirt, sick, food, urine, or snot with no attempts to be changed or cleaned. Never takes nappies, wipes or spare clothes - just left to sit in it
6. will not take her to the health visitor or doctor to be weighed despite being overweight. hasn't been for about 18 months
7. mother constantly tells how the child can get out of straps for car and pushchair - eg, at 6 months old? That's why she 'kept falling out'. The rest of us kept telling her the child wasn't strapped in properly but she just ignores us. Or that the child "can open stairgates" at 10 months old so that's why she fell down them.

Sorry if it seems overzealous, am genuinely looking for advice.

Blimey, i'd have been in trouble with the OP. DS could wriggle out of his car seat straps at 11 months. Both DC refused point blank to have a rain cover (ripping 2 in the process). DS eats a lot, but is really skinny cos he burns it all off, maybe I could be accused of underfeeding...? HVs here worse than useless, so I wouldn't have paid much attention to them anyway and as for the dirt, last time I looked, that didn't do kids any harm, did it. Don't believe OP any way really, esp as she's now gone in a puff of smoke

If OP is serious then I suggest contacting your local safeguarding board for further advice - Call Children's services and ask for the number. Debating it on a message board is pointless imho.

Note OP lives in Liverpool.Link below. There is a phone number you can call if you need advice or have concerns.

www.safeguardingchildrenboard.liverpool.gov.uk/

I agree with the OP. Could be these things are all just coincidences, or individual parenting style, and that's fine. But it does seem odd and I would be worried too. The NSPCC won't send the riot squad round tonight to drag the child out into care - they're there to give advice about what to do, and I would think they're very alert to people who just want to make trouble or are paranoid curtain-twitchers. If the OP feels uncomfortable she doesn't have to give details of the family and can just hang up, surely?

I imagine it's pretty rare to be absolutely certain that a child's being neglected, there are always possible explanations for everything. But on the NSPCC site it does talk about weight, poor protection from the weather, and not seeking medical treatment as possible signs of neglect. Andratx, you should call.

Btw, my dd isn't listed on my profile, pure laziness.

From what you've written andratx, you need to talk to someone. Perhaps your HV as a first port of call.

I mean talk to your HV about this little girl

you said she is not protected from the sun and then that its suspicious in the summer because the childs in long sleeved clothes-couldnt that be to protect her skin? my son had bruises at that age, he climbed everything. if shes covering her child up when she changes her maybe its because shes over weight.

If you havent got hard evidence shes being neglected dont say anything, ss can ruin home lives.
mabe when mums with you she does let nappy changes slide a bit, just because shes enjoying being around other mums for a bit of a chat. Other mums she TRUSTS.

ive only ever been to see a hv about twice and my daughters 1 yr old. I dont agree with
interference that isnt needed. My friends child is very over weight, but she dousnt need the help of a doctor.

Everything OP has written is normal. maybe apart form the wine bottle. i choose to hardly ever put sun cream on my boys. mind you they have never ever been even a tiny bit read/sunburnt.ds unclipped pram strap without me realising once at about 7 months.
and i know the safety of the child is the first concern.
but for those of you who say report, no harm done.
rubbish. you are ignorant. i was reported by my GP. ss never did anything and i have no gripes about ss. but if you think it wasn't horrific. think again. or ask ISNT. she went through the same.
you lot are naieve and ignorant.
I don't mind people reporting to ss. but not on a whim. or without some sort of reasonable evidence.

and which poster said about baby P. do you actually know much about the baby P case ? becasue with that case there were numerous numerous things missed. by ss themselves many times.to compare the seriousness of bay p, to this is ridiculous. it is incomparable.

Bruises caused by everyday accidents are one thing-if the legs-in the words of OP-

• were covered in little marks that looked like grip or smack marks-

what more evidence of abuse do you need?

op, go with your instincts and phone someone about it. fwiw it sounds like neglect to me.

disagree with seals and joey. i don't think its abuse or neglect. i think people bandy those words around without really realising the seriousness of what the words actually mean.

OK, I don't get point 4:

If I was present with kids (and the OP said she also has a 1YO) - if there was ANYTHING glass within reach of ANY of the kids, I wouldn't wait foro another parent to step in, I would ove it.

I take my (HORRENDOUSLY MOBILE) 19MO to several gym classes and have on numerous occasions stopped another child:

1. Running with a stick in her mouth
2. heading to a door that would be opened into her
3. Shut toilet doors to stop the kids going through them.

No way would I allow my kids to around glass objects. Nor would I sit there and let anyone else do it.

Other than that, it all sounds totally normal. My DS can open all manner of stair gates, refuses to wear a rain cover even if it's monsoon like and is taller (but perhaps not heavier) than your average 3YO.

Kids vary alot. My 6MO DD is larger than an 11MO child in a music group I take her too. My Paed / Dr/ HV doesn't seem concerned.

To be honest, if this IS genuine, I think you need to question why you need to ask a bunch of strangers whether there is anything odd about a 20MO child playing with broken glass.

how can you tell Oblomov?

None of us can see the bruises.

But if the OP thinks they were caused the slaps and pinches, or hitting, then it is her duty to talk to SS.

BTW I have seen photos of bruises caused by child abuse and the difference is often very clear (finger marks etc)

I personally think protecting the child would be of more importance than causing the mother inconvenience and upset.

Also if you think what the OP described is normal then maybe you should question your own parenting skills.

Joey, I am not the only one who has queried the list. I said that the wine bottle would cause concern, other than that i can't see that the others amount ot abuse negelct or anyhting else. they are all 'explainable'.
lots of other posters have given views on the suntan cream and the bruises.
the last poster , harimo, also said that the wine was odd, but other than that normal. she agreed with me totally. so i ma not alone.
so you think that harimo and i and anyone else who has queried - of which there are many posters, have to 'question their parenting' ?

i am happy with my parenting decisions thank you.

and joey, you were the one who immediately concluded abuse. but how do you know either. i ma always astonished by the odd shapes of my bruises and ds1(6) bruises.
one did indeed look like a grip mark, that he said his best friend form school caused when they were playing robots.
but i am not bruises expert.
i don't think Op is either.

AND , sorry for number of posts, but i did clearly state that the childs safety was the main priority.

My problem with the OP is that she states she SAW this child playing with a wine bottle and that the wine bottle broke.

And yet, she appears not to have brought that to the attention of this child's mother.

Sorry, but if I was with a friend / acquintance (presumably on some sort of playdate during the day) I would be asking: Why there was wine present /
why it was in reach of the kids
why there was glass within reach of the kids.

I would absolutely NOT tolerate it and I absolutely would not be adding it to a list of other 'evidence'on possible / suspect abuse.

So, what I don't get is why the OP (i) tolerated this (because if she did, then HER parenting skills need looking at too!) and (ii) why she didn't address it directly with the mother at that time.

I don't get why there doesn't seem to be any conversation / discussion with the mother (or other family member) but a desire to 'go to SS'...

I'm not qualified to say this is abuse or not, but I AM saying that it doesn't make sense.

OP knows alot about this neighbour. Are we to assume that she has been in her house, to see this wine bottle episode. and the child is never changed by anyone other than mother - same here - (i change my ds when i meet my friends, my neighbour, or my pn group.)
she never normally changes her infront of anyone. so are we to assume that they go for coffee or a sing-song group together , with other mums.

and yet, you have never discussed any of this with her. sounds like you don't like the woman, suspect she is not capable of caring for her children.
OP does know alot. yet knows nothing, if you see what i mean.

i am with harimo. it all sounds very odd. i can't get my head round Op and why she is posting this. very very strange.

Contact your local council 'Safeguarding children' department. They will take note of your details and will look into it.
Could be that this child is already known to the authorities.
Neglect comes in many forms and overfeeding/poor diet is one of them. What you said about the marks on her legs rings alarm bells!
I've been to safeguarding courses and some of the photo's you see on that course are heartbreaking.
Contact them straight away, she won't know who told them.....don't let this get worse.

Did the op ever come back?

Overfeeding is one of the signs of neglect ?
i find that difficult to accept.
so fat children have been neglected, to some degree.
poor diet -on MN we are very precious about foods. but loads of people feed their children nothing but processed food and crisps and chocolate. but i don't consider that neglect either.
no, that is not my idea of neglect.

The OPs profile says she has no children and on the thread says she has four .

Moffat - that has been explained in the thread.

If the OP ever comes back I would say take the middle ground and try to find out more information yourself.

Since you know so much about this family the mother must consider you as a "friend". Maybe some friendly support is what this family needs.

Is she a SAHM? Perhaps she is finding childcare overwhelming and could do with a break- why dont you invite her child over for a playdate?

If she isn't and the child is at nursery, they would probably be more aware of any problems than you.

Does she have other children? A helpful DP? Does she seem to care for/love her DD but is just a bit scatty? Is this a phase or a longterm problem? Could she have PND?

Is there a mutual friend/other neighbour you could discuss this with?

Sorry for all the questions but I think you/we need more informatin before recommending staying silent or calling SS, both of which could have grave consequences for this child.

An unnecessary SS investigation would be very stressful for all involved, including the child, something which I think should be kept in mind.

Oblomov, google 'overweight children and neglect' There is plenty of evidence.
We are not talking about abuse, but about people who can't be bothered to provide healthy food and curb excess eating.
What is worse is that the parents don't accept any help or seek help, that is neglect as well.

Ripe, I see that many drs have suggested it 'should be considered at neglect.'
But is it yet ?
And surrely they are refering to conor, 555, not just a bit overweight. clinically obese. having ignored all support.
else loads of mn'ers with fat children would be up for neglect. that can't be the case.
OP, who we know hasn't come back, says neighbours have good jobS. plural. so mother has a job ?
she can't have can she. else she would need childcare. any nursery or cm would have concerns, surely ?