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Original poster

Teaching kindness to animals

91 replies

Numbat · 27/06/2001 11:10

You know, I've actually found something I agree with JBR about! This was on the Jamie Bulger thread; JBR was saying how someone shouldn't let her daughter chase pigeons as this was "cruel to animals". OK, it's not quite cruelty, but I've been thinking about the attitude behind it and I'm with JBR on this one. We should teach our kids to be considerate of all those weaker than ourselves, from pigeons right through to other humans.

OP posts:
Bloss · 28/06/2001 14:37

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Jodee · 28/06/2001 15:51

Bloss, why do catlovers have a case to answer? I know you say you like cats, but hunting for sport is in their blood, what can you change about that?

Bloss · 28/06/2001 15:57

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Sml · 28/06/2001 16:20

Re cats: you've got to decide whether you are prepared to kill/harm animals which are doing something which harms your own interests. (It's very difficult not to if you think about it.)
If you therefore decide that it's ok to kill mice because they are a health hazard, then it's ok to have a cat (it's the only really effective method of mouse control in my experience!). The cat may kill birds, but that's a necessary side effect of your desire for a mouse free house. (Fitting bells to the cat's collar is quite effective, but you have to sew at least 6 bells on, or the cat learns to walk so that they don't jingle.) Apologies for the essay style, I've only just thought about this, and I'm packing up to go home!

Jodee · 28/06/2001 17:05

I got a cat from the CPL because I would rather give it a good home than see it put down, or be a stray, where it would most definitely be decimating the local wildlife (my moggy is happy to see her foodbowl filled twice a day and I've never in 5 years had a dead animal at my backdoor). There are far too many unwanted cats and unless a cat is kept for breeding should be spayed.

Star · 28/06/2001 17:17

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Bloss · 28/06/2001 17:23

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Willow2 · 28/06/2001 18:21

The RSPCA has just released statistics that apparently show that the majority of kids have seen/been involved in animal cruelty by the time they are ten (i think that was the age stated, could be wrong and can't be arsed to go downstairs and find the newspaper). Anyway, I think teaching young kids not to chase pigeons is a good first step to getting them to be kind to animals...even though I can't stand the blasted things (pigeons that is, not all animals in general). Kids should grow up with a healthy respect for animals - if only for their own safety.... you never know, it could be pigeons this week and a Rhodesian Ridgeback the next!

Jbr · 28/06/2001 19:51

It wasn't JUST the pigeons! It was this woman letting her little girl run around unwatched near a road, and the pigeon chasing was some kind of entertainment rather than her actually watching her!

Candy · 28/06/2001 19:56

Talking of cats - does anybody have any tips on keeping them OFF the garden or I'm sure dbf is going to end up on animal cruelty charges?! I'm not sure I think caged small animals is such a cruel thing, PROVIDING they are properly cared for. I used to keep pet rats and they had loads of exercise, interesting stuff in cages etc - they are such intelligent, friendly creatures that I think every child should have one!

Lisav · 28/06/2001 20:19

Candy - get a dog!

Sml · 29/06/2001 08:11

Bloss, it depends how strongly you feel about mice!

Anyway this whole cat thing is getting off the subject a bit isn't it? Surely the whole point of cruelty to animals is that we are human, supposedly more intelligent than other predators, so we have a responsibility not to be cruel to animals which does not exist for cats. Having a cat doesn't count as being cruel to animals, as you are merely introducing another predator into a world that's already full of them. An exception might be if you brought a cat to a place that didn't previously have cats, but that's another issue.

Marina · 29/06/2001 08:36

I agree that cats can't help it but Bloss has a point. Before we moved to a house with a garden I was really looking forward to having a cat, we both grew up with animals around and loved them dearly. But now I see the number of small birds in our garden (sparrows, tits, finches, blackbirds etc) I am not so sure it's a good idea. We don't have mice. I might rethink if anyone knows of a cat which hunts down slugs and snails efficiently...
Dare I raise the question of zoos? I loved going to the zoo when I was little - I can remember the thrill of seeing a tiger for the first time, and immediately wanting to do my school project that term on India. A lot of the UK zoos have a brilliant record on conserving rare breeds and raising the profile of threatened species, and I think it's true to say that the conditions in which animals are kept are much better than 30 years ago. I'd love my son to enjoy seeing these animals too and we are definitely not in the Kenyan safari bracket. But, I still feel a little guilty...what do others think?

Sml · 29/06/2001 08:54

We haven't got a cat, but this is more to do with living in the town. If we did, I would sew 6 or 7 small bells on its collar as I mentioned before - this is quite effective against them catching birds. I've NEVER known a cat that brought home a hedgehog!

Re zoos, I am not that keen on them either, but modern ones are definitely better than the old ones. They are not as bad as circuses with lions and tigers etc. I tend to take conservation work with a pinch of salt. For example, some zoos want to re-release the Berber lions into the wild. Conveniently ignoring the fact that the mountains where these lions once roamed are quite heavily populated with farming communities and the locals might not be too keen.

Lil · 29/06/2001 09:54

Hooray a thread on the nuisance of cats! They crap in my garden and scare off the birds, and eat the frogs (that eat the slugs etc)!

Sml how many of us have mice in the house??????cats kill wild mice in the garden that are no harm to you or I. It might be natural for cats to kill wildlife, but in nature there would not be the density of cats that there are in the towns. Therefore nature can't cope. I heard that around 6 million creatures are killed by domestic cats each year, anyone else confirm that?

The best thing any wildlife lover can do is to NOT keep cats!!! (or keep white ones, they aren't so good at hunting, cos they get spotted!)

Sml · 29/06/2001 10:50

ahem - Lil - we've had them in the past. I'll go further and say that anyone who's lived in the country for a few years and claims never to have had mice is either a liar or a cat owner....now I'll put my head down!
It is true that there's an unnaturally large population of cats, but they hunt less because they're fed. If they weren't fed, all cats would have to hunt, but many domestic cats don't cause they don't need to. Also, if Britain were to revert to its previous state of wilderness, there'd be many more foxes, stoats, weasels, wild cats etc, as well as wolves...now they WOULD make a mess of your flowerbeds!

Croppy · 29/06/2001 11:03

We have an ongoing and terrible mice problem in our place in the country and have also suffered once or twice in London in the past couple of years.

Bloss · 29/06/2001 11:14

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Sml · 29/06/2001 11:25

They vary though - some cats don't kill for fun. Wild cats are certainly native to Britain, I think domestic ones were brought by the Romans, but I agree about cats in Australia.

Binza · 29/06/2001 12:19

Right I've just got to take this opportunity to have my say about cats. It's not the cats so much but the casual (and that's being kind) attitude of cat owners that really gets me wound up. I'm sick to death of having my plants dug up, cat prints all over the car and cat crap all over the garden. I consider myself to be a resposible pet owner and regularly have the dog vaccinated and wormed and I tidy up after him. How do I know that my neighbours bother to do any of this? My children are at risk of serious illness because of these cats and their crap! I dare say people would soon have something to say if all the dog owners let their pets run around wherever they wanted.

Lisav · 29/06/2001 13:20

Yeah, but at least cats try to bury their poo. I think it's far worse when I see a dog owner ignoring the great big poo their dog has just done on the pavement. Of all the poos I see in the street, they all belong to dogs, not cats.

I'm fed up of coming home and trying to scrape dog poo off the buggy wheels - plus it's very dangerous for small children to come into contact with it.

My brother has two very large dogs and whenever he takes them out he takes a pocketful of nappy bags to pick the poo up with, this is a responsible dog owner. Unlike most of the people who live near me!

Batters · 29/06/2001 15:36

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Jbr · 29/06/2001 17:33

I read somewhere you are only supposed to feed wholemeal bread to ducks because white bread or the brown bread (some of it is just food colouring) is bad for them. Anyone know why? I think it might be something to do with digestion but I am not 100% sure.

Binza · 29/06/2001 20:18

TRY being the operative word. At least you have a chance to see and therefore avoid a pile of dog s**t unlike cats who scrape a bit of soil and usually any plants that are handy over their mess so that you have no idea what's lurking there! I think you'll find I did say I was responsible and cleaned up after my dog which is more than can be said for any cat owners I know.
Batters I'm intrigued to know on what you base the notion that cats are cleverer than dogs? I haven't noticed many mountain rescue teams or blind people using cats. At the end of the day they are a pet for people who want to put in the minimum amount of effort for their returns and the cat has a reciprical arrangement.

Willow2 · 01/07/2001 10:05

Blimey, this is all getting a bit heated. I own two cats.... now is that because I am too lazy to own a dog, or simply that I haven't the space for one and, as such, consider owning a dog in London cruel? It's anyone's guess.