Toy guns. Would you allow them in your house?

[spidermama]

My DH and his two brothers were not allowed guns in the house. So desperate were they to play gun games that they used to bite their toast into gun shapes and use them.

Big Brother, would you allow it in your house? - not if I can help it!

mu gun liking ds2 has shown vague interest in army style computer games but he is much too young to play these, he prefers toys anyway, so it isn't an issue yet. I don't know what will happen in the future. I guess I will look at how he is generally - what his other likes are, his personality, how he gets on with other people etc before making any rules. Also of coures the age recommendation of the games!

In other words I will base the rules by looking at my son first and foremost, looking at the reality of how he wants to play, and what happens when he does. I will try not (much as I'd like to) base the rules on my theories of what is a 'nice' and 'not nice' and my wish to appear PC to other parents in my parenting methods.Tbh this might come into my decision a bit, but not a lot.

My oldest son age 11 does go through computer game phases - for a couple of months this winter he wanted to play xbox games at every opportunity. Then the craze subsided. He was mad keen on xbox sports games, not shoot em up games. Nothing to do with me, just the way he is.

Tigermoth, I am puzzled. Why do you say "I will try not (much as I'd like to) base the rules on my theories of what is a 'nice' and 'not nice'" Isn't that a fairly fundamental part of parenting?

I don't have a problem with other parents being OK with their children playing with guns as I don't personally think it will warp their personalities (I just don't like it), but more importantly I don't feel I have the right to impose my views on other families (at least about this issue anyway!). But I do think I have the right, and the responsibility, to impose my views on my family.

There are quite a few TV programmes that they aren't allowed to watch because we don't like the morality. This is not being PC, it's part of the way we chose to parent.

Granted dd does have many Barbies (but this was imposed by dh and not me!)...
Regarding computer games I do my best to find games that they will like that fit my views on "niceness". As a result they are currently both addicted to the Sims

Until they leave our house (never according to dd) then I would expect to impose at least some rules. As they get older they will have more of a say in this, but at the end of the day I think we are allowed to be in charge.

Little bro and I had toy guns. And a spud gun (that you dug into a potato and fired pieces of it - not at each other mind!).

We also used to play with bows and arrows (real ones, v pointy) and shoot them into bales of hay on holiday. We were about seven and nine when we first did that. The idea of the bows and arrows scares me now though - they stuck right into the hay bales...

Don't have a problem with toy guns really - more the way they're played with. Won't go out of my way to buy one for DS and people probably think I disapprove so he's unlikely to get one as a gift

hercules somewhere after the Hit and Run but before Grand theft auto for the older one (girl ). The younger one (boy) isn't allowed Hit and Run because I don't think he's old enough to distinguish fantasy from reality. As I said I'm not totally happy about hit and run but we didn't realise how violent is was when we bought it and it is, pretty obviously, a cartoon. I don't see violent computer games as that different to playing army games, or having a cutlass/ bow and arrow if you're pretending to kill with it. They all involve pleasure from killing people.

And I refuse to have Big Brother in the house either or to have boxing matches on when the children are around.

I'm quite a fan of Grand Theft Auto. Most of the Rockstar games are quite sophisticated with their humour and loaded with irony. Manhunt was like this. Full of covert gay hoodlums.

Only older kids would get this though.

nooka, to clarify - as a general principle of parenting, I will try to put my sons' own desires and expression of individuality first - as long as they are following family behaviour rules of course. I think you are confusing rules of behaviour and morality with general views on taste and style. If my son played with guns in a bad way, I would ban the guns ( or video games for the 11 year old). If he plays with guns (or games) in an ok way, I wouldn't. The gun is not the issue, the behaviour is.

If my sons (the 5 and 11 year old) are good boys then as far as choosing toys, clothes, pastimes etc I will give them freedom to express themselves. So if the 11 year old did want to have more violent video games, I would not automatically say no. As long as the things my sons choose for themselves are age appropriate and safe, I will try to have an open mind.

If course I do have my own ideas of what toys I'd like then to play with, what books I'd like the oldest to read, what music to listen to, what clothes to wear etc. I don't think it would be healthy of me to impose on my sons my own tastes and image of how I would like them to be - I might do this a bit, but try to limit it! I think it would be wrong of me to assume my tastes are better than theirs.

Ah, tigermoth, I'm afraid to say I'm probably a bit more of a facist! Maybe it's lucky for the kids that dh generally has different views (for example on Barbies). Still my two are quite little (6 and 4) so maybe I'll think differently when they are older. Still don't think I will be letting them play violent video games - but the dh is probably looking forward to playing Doom with them, so I expect I will lose that battle too! Although I do think that disliking guns and shootemups is more than just a matter of my personal taste - I guess I don't think that these things can be played in a unviolent way that I would find acceptable.

left to themseleves my children would have expressed their personal taste by not washing. The younger one would steal all his sisters toys. As they get older they are allowed more choice over what they do, especially if they fund it from money they have worked for (they have to work for pocket money). nooka I'm intending to let mine do paintballing when they are teenage if they want - would you find that acceptable? How do you stand on boxing, I really hate it.

My daughter and friends have moved on from barbie to myscene but some are now beginning to dress themselves up rather than the dolls.

I do know, of course, that toy guns exist because children imitate adults in their play. Tudor children had toy bows and arrows (at least the boys did). But why do we still think they are acceptable, when the sole purpose of guns is to kill? Ds is only (very nearly) two so I haven't had to confront this yet - but I really don't want him playing at killing people or animals, thanks very much. And if he does at some stage, make toy guns out of toast, I guess I can't do much about that. But I can stop him having replica guns, and I will. Guns kill. Don't want him to think imitating murder is in any way acceptable ? to me, at least.

PS I would feel strongly about this for my ds in any case. But I feel even more strongly because gun crime is sadly so common right now. Shortly before we moved from London there was a fatal shooting in the house opposite us. A gunman rode up in a motorbike, walked into the kitchen and shot the daughter's boyfriend in the head.

I'm not suggesting that playing with toy guns = kids automatically turn into some sad excuse for a human being like the man responsible for this. But it would suggest to ds that I find guns acceptable as playthings. I don't. Real guns kill people, why would I want to turn them into toys?

nooka, I suppose you'll just have to see how you feel when your sons are older. I thought it would be difficult for a child to play with toy guns in a non violent way until my ds2 proved me wrong. He showed me he could play well with other children and toy weapons.

I remember making more of a link between guns and misbehaving with my oldest son. If toy guns, and especially swords, were involved in a playfighting game, things were more likely to turn physical. But it wasn't a simple case of cause and effect as the hitting, tripping over, shoving around, bumping into each other etc could happen very easily when toy weapons were not involved.

tatt, not washing and stealing toys are more behaviour than taste issues, I think? Unless the toy stealing is because your son prefers his sister's toys, in which case it would be a taste issue too?

I hate boxing and wrestling, but did allow my sons to watch it on TV sometimes. However, now it is banned. It definitely made my sons playfight more and not stop when told to. Also as there is a 5 year size difference, copying the wrestling moves could have very dangerous.
So we had two big reasons to ban it - behavour and safety.

One thing to add (might have been mentioned already) - violent video games obviously have age recommendations on them. Adults often play the same games as children. So there is a good reason to say many violent video games are not appropriate for a 9 year old.

But as a rule, adults don't play with toy guns. The recommended age for most toy guns is 3 years and over. So as a toy for a child, they are age appropriate. Not talking of air pistols here, of course!

edam, I understand what you are saying. I don't like guns either. But what will you do if your son decides he's mad on army stuff like mine is? Would you go along with it, if he plays well? Or would you ignore his enthusiasm and try to divert him towards another craze? As soldiers are trained to kill others, would you ban all army toys, camoflage clothes, action man, etc as well as guns? where would you draw the line?

And also being in the forces doessn't make you a baby eating monster. My dh is the kinds, most gentle man you could ever meet. He is far more patient with the children than I am. He has no interest in guns and shooting, but flys a plane for a living.

This is not a simple black and white issue. Also I echo what others have said about personality, to a very large degree it is the luck of the draw. you get what you get

Hmmm I was brought up by pinko left-wing parents who certainly would have banned any army stuff - in fact they point black refused my pleas to have an action man (even though I only wanted him so I could have a proper Sindy wedding rather than the poor girl standing at the altar on her own). My mother was proud of her parents who were both in the forces in WW2, but that was, in her view, right and just because we were defending the country against Hitler (and mine, too).

Haven't really thought about it in depth before. But no, I don't want him dressing up as a soldier. No problem with real soldiers but that's something for grown-ups, not little children. IMO for my ds.

LOL at your wedding plans!

What you have said has reminded me of something my cousin said about her children, her dd wanted to 'do' weddings between sindy and action man and she once heared her son saing, 'But Action man doesn't want to get married, he wants to go into the jungle and fight people'

He son is now a geography/history teacher who does a superb sequence of lessons on Belgium and the futility of WW1! So go figure!

LOL at your nephew! I did acquire an action man from some friends of ours - unfortunately their dog had a thing about chewing plastic and action man was missing most of his limbs. See what my right-on parents led me too!

to, even...

Applause Edam I agree wholeheartedly!

I have to say my views on this have changed over the past few years . I see from this old thread that when my boys were two they didn't have any weaponry and I was concerned about their attraction to guns. Well, I'm afraid I lost the battle bigtime! Now aged 6, their room is full of swords, lightsabres, waterpistols and batman cars that shoot orange plastic arrows. I have kept realistic looking guns out pretty much. Their grandparents will buy them anything they ask for so a few have slipped through but I just throw them away once the novelty has worn off. However, I must say that my worst fear- that they would becaome bloodthirsty killer types!- hasn't been realised. Though their pretend games indicate a certain redness in tooth and claw, they don't seem particularly drawn to gunplay/war games over and above any other type of play and, like tigermoth's son, are pretty well behaved, kind and gentle. I think I was worrying about nothing really.

SM, a very interesting post.

Asking you to think , 'what if'.

Do you think they would have got the 'gun thing' out of their systems if you had dug your heels in and made it a blanket ban?

I always find that the boys who come to my house who aren't allowed guns and far more drawn to them than ds, who can take them or leave them tbh. He has got it out of his system I think

I think maybe they wouldn't have, hmb. That was certainly one thing that made me weaken. Plus I was just so on a loser once they lost interest in pre-school toys. So many toys have some sort of sword/gun/bow and arrow connection and, backed by their Dad and grandparents, they had no intention of missing out.

The other think that helped me to 'give in' was the essential 'violence' of a lot of ds's play. Give him a train track and he just had to create a crash, whereas dd would have the train go to the shops! And I was a 70s feminist, no nasty sexual setiotyping in my house 'Thank you'! [blush} Oh how the smug mummy fell with that one!

So of I was going to erradicate 'violence' I would have had to ban almost all of ds's imaginative play. And after all of that he is a very kind little boy, who's school report mentioned how sweet he was with the other children in the class. Just give him a bit of toast and it may well become a light sabre!

that was interestng reading that old thread scummymummy.

I had forgotten that my oldest son was that much into guns around the age of 5 or 6. Still not as much as my youngest son is, and never into model army toys or games, but yes, he did like collecting toy guns for a while.

And the reason I had forgotten this is partly down to the fact that it is a distant memory. Toy guns were a phase he went through. He does not play with them now, not ever. And he could if he wanted to as a couple of boys in our street, age 11, regularly play toy gun games with my youngest son.

Granted, ds1 likes the idea of shooting targets, and has a cap gun that fires yellow plastic pellets, but only as an occasional thing. If we are in Devon and dh is shooting rabbits in the fields owned by his father, ds will be eager to join him, but this is a once a twice a year occurance - they go fishing together far more often.

Edam - wonder if your Sindy knew mine? My Sindy and db's Action Man used to swap clothes, so there was no chance of them getting married ...