Toy guns. Would you allow them in your house?

[spidermama]

My DH and his two brothers were not allowed guns in the house. So desperate were they to play gun games that they used to bite their toast into gun shapes and use them.

I am really interested in this thread. Especially the idea of children 'working out' their interest in guns, weapons, etc. Growing up in Texas, there were guns everywhere, both toy and real ones and I think I've made the assumption that having toy guns in childhood and playing 'violent' games increases the chances that this behaviour will continue into adulthood. Simply because that seemed to be the pattern in my own circle of experience. I know so many people and even children who were shot and sometimes killed in accidents with guns and it's made me very anti all weapon toys because I've thought it would protect DS.

Reading this thread and thinking about it further I can see that there was a great deal of cultural input in Texas that isn't present in England. Sounds so obvious now! The whole 'guns are cool' and 'we need guns for everyday protection' ideas are not something that I've come across here. You guys are really making me think!

I still don't think I would allow DS any toy guns that looked realistic but I'm definitely going to think more about this idea of working out natural interest and aggression in a healthy way.

I don't really like the replica guns that look like real guns - my children have the old fashioned crappy plastic 'cowboy' guns & a laser one that lights up and goes 'woo woo' (though the batteries have fallen out and the side hangs off so its less impressive now). Don't think anyone would mistake them for the real thing!

A load of children at a festival were shooting cap guns at the weekend which scared the living daylights out of mine, which I have to say I didn't appreciate much.

And I agree with tex - the cultural context in the Uk is very different from the US.

People who are interested in this issue would probably find the book "We don't play with guns here" useful. It's about the fact that many, if not most, childcare settings discourage or ban boys' role play when it involves weapons and fighting. It suggests that this can harm boys' development and looks at ways of allowing weapon play that will develop creativity and self-confidence.

I still think sticks and toast 'guns' is the way to go, though. Will never feel comfortable to see a gun in a child's hand (shudder).

I'm not convinced by the trendy 'expert' idea that boys have some innate need to play with weapons. Generalisations based on gender don't apply to individuals anyway - you can say 'boys as a group are more likely to ....' but there will be a whole range of behaviour exhibited by individuals. Girl A and boy B might be more similar in personality than either of this is to any other individuals who share their gender.

Ds is only nearly 2, so not an issue yet, but I will ban toy guns that are replicas or realistic. Might let him have other toy weapons that are more imaginative such as light sabres or bows and arrows - after all, you don't see many drive-by light sabre attacks on the news.

Dh used to do sword fighting when I first met him (not fencing, fighting with broadswords) but has said recently he'd be very reluctant to let ds do this as a teenager as dh knows the risk of injury (even thought the swords are blunt).

Mind you, I'm also determined never to let ds take up rugby, riding or anything else at all dangerous... even knitting involves sharp needles.

God, so many typos...

REaad some of the posts and quite shocked at MAmotoos {is that right, dont want to hunt again}.

I grew up with cap guns and have never been violent in my life!

Dh grew up with real guns and has never been violent either.

Ds had a few guns and swords and has never been violent.

IF dd wants a toy sword or gun, I'll happily give her one.

Kids have been play fighting since time began. DO you really believe this is a cause of increased gun crime??

Message withdrawn

I'm with those who wouldn't give replica guns but DS (5) has a bow and arrow set and has had a wooden sword (now conveniently lost). There is no logic to my position at all - just hate the appearance of children with little toy guns. My DS uses sticks in the park and plays plenty of shooting type games with his friends, he would also love a light sabre but is not allowed as they are too big/ unwieldy/ will clonk dd or knock things over with it etc.

Tigermoth my ds has played with toy guns in the park with a child who bought them there, like your son. I HATED watching him. I would never have said anything to his mother but I did wonder at the time why she indulged him in it, when most kids in the park were happy with sticks/ fingers etc. Your post has made me think a bit more about my views.

Frannyf, I'm going to buy a copy of that book. I can see that I've simply reacted against my own experience rather than thinking through my approach with DS. Will definitely give this some more thought. I'm wondering about activities such as karate which could be an outlet for the kind of creative aggression being discussed but also teaches respect and self control. Off topic a bit, but I think it could be related to the discussion.

My ds (5) uses weapons to 'fight evil' and rescue weaker toys. I think context makes a difference. Also I remember hours of fun playing pretend guns with girlfriends and yet seeing kids with guns bothers me.

I think there is also something about using the word "ban" in this context. I haven't "banned" guns in the house, I just don't buy them, and know that they wouldn't be given one. My ds has occasionally, when asked what present he would like in a shop asked about getting a gun, and I have just said "no, what about this toy instead". It's never been a problem, so I can't see why he should suddenly develop a huge desire to have a real gun as a grown up.

Most children (girls and boys) have no problems in expressing their violence without firearms, whether they use bits of toast, fingers, sticks or anything else that fires their imagination. I don't see that he is being deprived in any way of any part of his growing up.

I would have no problem with him taking up fencing as a sport, and we are currently looking at a karate class for him (recommended by his physio).

I like many others here, just do not like to see children (or grown ups for that matter) with anything that looks like a real gun (or knife or anything else designed to cause pain in others).

That doesn't mean I have a problem with other families having other views, and would not be upset if he played with a gun in a friends house (so long as I don't have to watch!).

Interesting thread.

My views on toy guns are rather muddled, as are many of my parenting ideas! I never wanted ds1 to have toy guns, but as he got older and made guns out of sticks/lego etc (not toast though - that made me lol, spidermama) I relented somewhat and he was allowed a Boba Fett space blaster for Christmas. I still don't like the idea of realistic, replica-type guns - but since ds2 arrived I have relaxed the rules even further and we now have a whole armoury: matching space blasters, light sabers, cutlasses and plastic swords (all of which get confiscated on a regular basis when someone gets bashed with them - but then, so do skittles and lengths of Brio train track).

Ds1, like tigermoth's son, is now really into WWII (they are studying it at school, to tie in with VE and VJ Days) and is an expert on all manner of weaponry: he draws, reads, writes and plays 'War'. Ds2 gets roped into this too and at 3 is conversant with terms such as grenade, bangalore, and Sten gun!

Bit of a waffle but, to summarise my views (muddled as they are), I think tex111's viewpoint is fascinating and sums up how I feel about toy guns. There is more to creating a child who would carry out a Columbine-style massacre than giving them a toy gun to play with as a child. If you are bringing up a child to be a thoughtful, balanced and well-rounded individual then toy guns are not going to turn them into a violent social deviant.

Real guns exist to kill living beings. That's their only purpose. So why do we allow/want kids to imitate that? Serious question, not aimed at anyone in particular, just curious about how guns were turned into toys in the first place.

I guess because children imitate what they see - many toys are replicating things in life: toy cookers, building bricks, toy cars etc. I would be interested to know when toy guns were first manufactured - how long ago and was it in response to a conflict? Things like toy bows and arrows have been around for centuries. I would imagine that as long as there have been people, children have created their own toy weapons out of whatever they had to hand (cavechildren making toy spears...?) I guess the first 'proper' toy gun appeared when some bright spark of a manufacturer realised there was money to be made there.

In my experience fighting and using all means available to protect oneself from scarey monsters is an essential element of child's play. It's a way of managing fear.

Also, most people eat meat. The animals have to be killed. As hunters we did it ourselves with spears, bows and arrows and, yes, guns.

OK we're not hunting any more but we eat the meat so the idea of killing prey is still in our conciousness.

Perhaps there's a residual fear of being killed which goes hand in hand with this and needs to be explored by chidren (especially boys).

I find it odd that people are 'shocked' by the ramblings of a pacifist.

Anyway those are my views and 13 years into parenting boys ( and girls) they have worked well.............

Oh dear ..13 year old (ds) just walked into room with two year old (ds) and they were both carrying a baby doll ( daughters) and giving them kisses! Maybe some of you would prefer your gun playing boys but....me i am very proud of my non - violent boys!

Whereas my boys (6 & 4) often come in with a friend's baby doll swinging it my the legs and trying to shoot it. They often try to inflict violence on their baby cousin/friends.

Or do they actually show incredible patience and love towards visiting babies...

I'm sorry, but your sons' calm and apparently nurturing nature has very little to do with whether they had toy guns and more to do with the other parenting and life influences and the morals and values you instil in them. Just like with my DSs

maybe - Soupdragon ! None of us will ever know will we !

My ds2 has a space gun and a baby doll. He plays with both.

Well, yes quite frankly. I will know because I know my sons.

Well 'quite frankly' You cannot rule out the sorrelation between my boys all being non - violent and the fact that they have never played with guns. Can You?

Well 'quite frankly' You cannot rule out the correlation between my boys all being non - violent and the fact that they have never played with guns. Can You?

Several times various little boys have 'shot' me with pretend guns or with their finger and I absolutely hate it and I dislike them for doing it.

However, I think playing guns with another consenting playmate is very different.

I remember so clearly having fantastic fun playing guns with a girlfriend down at the riverbank. (We had no guns so used the yellow links from Matchbox car tracks) We ran around and hid behind bushes popping out to say, 'Bang! I got you'. It felt the same as playing 'Tig'.

I've re-read this thread and, I must admit, I still haven't made up my mind on this.

Oh I do think whenever you start boasting about how you completely created your children you are on dodgy ground. I just don't believe it, frankly. My baby dd is SO totally different to my ds in all sorts of ways - she made herself, I think. And my ds made himself. he's totally uninterested in guns/swords etc etc, but that is his personality, not my doing. My stepdaughter, who is one of the most civilised, delightful, charming, social teenagers you could ever meet (she's nearly 14) and other Mumsnetters will agree that she is AMAZING was obsessed with swordfighting with her dad as a kid - absolutely loved it. and now she does fencing as a hobby and is very good at it.
It is just the way they are. It's like babies and sleeping, don't be too smug because it is just luck and chance.