DH and I have no control over our kids and are desperate

[DespairingAndKnackered]

We know we must be doing everything wrong but just don't know what to do anymore. Kids are 8 and under and are lovely, gorgeous, kind, friendly, helpful and funny kids some of the times. Other times they physically hurt each other, shout at us, laugh when we tell them off or argue when we ask them to help and have a fine line in slamming doors.

It is only for us that they are this bad so we know it is our fault.

I have no idea about kids but DH had a normal upbringing so doesn't have the same worries I do.

The kids used to behave for him and not me but now they will scream at either of us the same.

Just don't know what to do anymore as I know it is me that is the problem as they are probably normally behaved kids and this is what they do.

Rather than trying to work out how to get them to behave I guess I need help to handle them when they behave like I don't want as I lose my temper and just end up not knowing what to do.

"Other times they physically hurt each other, shout at us, laugh when we tell them off or argue when we ask them to help and have a fine line in slamming doors. "

Don't all kids do that?

As long as they're doing what you want most of the time, it's not a problem.

If not, then introduce some high expectations and consequences for bad beahviour - i find no screen time works best here.

The reason they do it only with you, is because that's who they feel safest with. That's not a bad sign, it's a good one. If they're reasonably well behaved with other people, then their naughtiness is within the bounds of normal IMO.

They do sound like normal kids tbh. Sounds like you both have too high expectations of yourselves and of them.

I think you are probably right but just feel a bit crap when it feels everyone else gets the best of them.

I told them no chocolate for the rest of the week and it escalated to none for 2 weeks and ds1 saying he never wants any again. He has now packed his bags and said he is ready to leave home. All because I said to go pack a bag and that is just not on.

How do I learn to stop losing the plot with them and things getting out of hand?

Thank you for answering.

Seconded.

I'd rather have them kicking off at home than at school.

But saying that, we don't just shrug and say 'oh well, kids will be kids'. You still have to find a way to manage them and teach them that its not acceptable (although to some degree we accept it if you see what I mean). You can't scream back, you can't slam doors. You can count to 10 and hope bedtime hurries up (although that's a nightmare in itself in this house)

But don't blame yourself. Its them, not you.

It's easy to lose sight of things. You are being very honest about your children's behaviour - not everyone is as honest, so it can seem that other people's kids behave better.

Have you read the book 'How to talk...' it's very good.

I also know that 99% of the problem is me.

It makes me feel so sad and responsible when DH shouts at them too.

here

Its not you. you could maybe improve your communication with them to get them to respond better but thats easily done

I have that book, cornsilk, and hope to find some time from somewhere to read some more.

How do I do that, Cybil?

read the book corny recommended.

One tip that really works with my 3 is don;t nag, use ONE WORD to get the message across.

So rather than saying 'How many times have I told you, shoes don't go here they go under the stairs I'm sick of tidying up after you lot blah blah blah' by which time they've run off, or whatever. You say firmly and politely' ' Mary , SHOES'...and it works. They do it.

With mine when I've had enough I say right one sit at the top of the stairs and one sit at the bottom then I go and get them when I've had a few minutes to think what to do next most of the time it defuses the situation they say sorry and we move on, sometimes dd1 will sit and sulk and I say ok you can come back in when you have finished sulking and I leave her to it. (My dc's are 4 and 10)

If I have warned them and they carry on I will make them go to bed early which they don't like so they usually stop and if they don't at least they go to bed early and I get to relax that bit earlier.

Kids are better behaved for others and that is because they know you love them no matter how much they push it which means you are a good parent because your child obviously knows you love them no matter what.

Try to give them plenty of warning of what is happening like if you are out somewhere you say ok we're going in 10 minutes, ok we're going in 5 minutes can you all put your shoes/ coats on quickly. 5 minutes until bedtime, 10 minutes until dinner can everyone help tidy up. and so on

Don't put yourself down! It's that mother guilt creeping up on you. It is human nature for children to be hooligans unless taught boundaries and it's bl**dy difficult to do.

Have you looked on the supernanny website? Not saying you need to have a naughty step but it is good advice generally on setting consistent boundaries and using consequences. I believe somewhere is the secret of not shouting.

My DH is great at thinking up fitting consequences, his favourite line is "if you're not going to sleep you won't need that teddy then will you...." works like a charm on a 4yo.

You and your DH need to back each other up and be a team too, sounds like you need some support.

You aren't a bad mum, we all have the same problems with varying degrees of success and yes they reserve their very worst behaviour for the people they love best.

I really appreciate all your ideas.

If only my memory could remember everything when I most need it too!

Get the book, honestly it is really good.

these are my favourite parenting books

here

and here

I like these books because they help me feel closer to my child and that we are on the same side. They have given me more patience and understanding and are a very different approach from the supernanny style stuff that everyone is usually already familiar with.

I second what lots of people have said but I do think your punishment of no chocolate for a week is too long for a punishment.

They need to be short and sharp punishments.

Time out
Miss TV
Bed at 6pm
No computer time
Remove favourite toys for a while

My tips would be

Be consistent
Choose your fights ie decide what you want to argue with them about depending on what is important to you. For example if they dont want to wear the red tshirt you put out for them, is it worth arguing about it? Let them wear the green one if they want to.
But NO BOUNCING ON THE NEW SOFA : end of.

Who is causing the most trouble? Take them aside and have a grownup conversation with them about how much trouble/angst it is causing in the family and that you would appreciate it if they didnt wind up their siblings.

Parenting is very very hard.

Agree with GossipMonger that no chocolate for a week is too abstract a punishment - it needs to be immediate and if possible directly related to or a consequence of the bad behaviour.

Would coming up with some kind of "disciplinary procedure" help to keep you on track and not get dragged in to arguing or things spiralling out of control? You can put one together with the children, choose between you a handful of really important "house rules". Have a system of first warning, time out, punishment etc - then in the heat of the moment you just have to run through the system.

Humour?
Many's the time it can get them back on your side.
Silly stories, pretending to be a funny character from a film ticking them off.
Tell your children stories about what you did as a child when you were naughty, or slightly over the top cautionary tales.
Mine are always riveted and forget to misbehave.

I think no choc for a week is probably foolhardy threat, as they have nothing left to lose after that...and can go on behavng badly for the rest of the week.

Try and get the troublemakers on your side, so they don't seek attention just by being naughty. Enlist their help with something, but choose what they help you with carefully, don't let them not helping you be a further source of tension.
There is always something that every child likes doing, make that their job, which they feel proud of.

Also the greatly underestimated
GET THE KIDS OUT OF THE HOUSE EVEN IF IT IS RAINING MUDDY AND VILE
RUNNING AROUND SOMEWHERE
and they won't be quite as naughty in the house because they'll be knackered

I could have written your post, and in fact I probably should have written it, but couldn't be bothered, so look - you're not as bad a Mum as I am!

I know where I go wrong: not following through on punishments, and letting them talk me out of things, which leads to constant, agonisingly annoying negotiations, which really tires me out. My goal for 2010 is to only say that which I am prepared to carry out, and not to shout.

My parents are great with my boys: they are no-nonsense strict on some stuff (mess, jumping around, cheekiness) but soo, soooo good at giving lots of positive attention and praise for good things. I seem to jump all over the bad stuff but completely ignore the good, and then not play with them enough as they've annoyed me.

Anyway, I will read this thread with great interest and do please remember, you are not alone.

We have all just had tea together. We all said sorry and I apologised for telling them to pack a bag and that I was wrong.

The chocolate thing was because they have had some today and I figured it was that
that was making them obnoxious. (DS currently asking dh why they can't go out in the garden and has announced he will move house tmw instead.)

A disciplinary procedure would be great. We have a list of what makes mummy happy/sad but no one looks at it anymore.

Thanks for the book ideas, Earthstar. Both are now ordered.

There's loads of good advice, but one really important thing is that you and your DH need to be a united front, at least in front of the DCs. You can argue the toss over what you should have done later, out of earshot. If they sense that you're not supporting each other it will make them feel insecure and their behaviour will get worse.

And yes, pick your battles. Some things just aren't worth pursuing - your sanity is as important as their behaviour. They sound pretty normal, tbh.