DH and I have no control over our kids and are desperate

[DespairingAndKnackered]

We know we must be doing everything wrong but just don't know what to do anymore. Kids are 8 and under and are lovely, gorgeous, kind, friendly, helpful and funny kids some of the times. Other times they physically hurt each other, shout at us, laugh when we tell them off or argue when we ask them to help and have a fine line in slamming doors.

It is only for us that they are this bad so we know it is our fault.

I have no idea about kids but DH had a normal upbringing so doesn't have the same worries I do.

The kids used to behave for him and not me but now they will scream at either of us the same.

Just don't know what to do anymore as I know it is me that is the problem as they are probably normally behaved kids and this is what they do.

Rather than trying to work out how to get them to behave I guess I need help to handle them when they behave like I don't want as I lose my temper and just end up not knowing what to do.

"I feel" isn't on it's own.

It carries on as "I feel unhappy when you..."

As soon as the 'you' is added surely there is some blame attached.

We have a group here at the hospital I work at and the main things it teaches are consistency and the punishment being immediate.

You have done wrong, you are now being punished by being sent to your room, having no TV time today or having your favourite toy taken away or not joining a family outing and then when the punishment is over you sit and talkabout why it happened and things you can do to control yourself when it starts to happen again - anger is often expressed in a way which is deemed naughty - shouting or acting up - you need to show your kids by talking to them after you have punished them that it is not bad to show anger but it is to be done in an acceptable way - talking about it or taking yourself away for some time out.

Sorry that is a load of babble but I am at work at the moment trying to do rostas and mumsnet at the same time.

Hi D&K,

This could have been my post a few weeks ago, so I really feel for you! Well behaved at school but little at home.

Things which have helped us so far...

• Not showing how the kids are angering / upsetting me. I try to put on an 'icy' front while they are being naughty. If they can see they are winding me up then they tend to do it more. Lots of hugs, cuddles and fun when they are being good of course.

• Don't nag! I used to end up screaming at them to get their shoes on in the morning. Now I tell them it is time to get ready to go. I'll finish getting myself ready and then stand by the open front door waiting. I might give a brief reminder, but I won't say anything else. So far it seems to work.

You might find it gets a bit harder before it gets better as they try to push the new boundaries and we still have flare ups over certain things, we're still working on strategies for those! If you can be consistent as a couple (and isn't that the hardest thing!) and show a united front then things can improve significantly.

The other thing I have done is to contact our school support person. She gave mer a few tips and she is doing a parenting skills course for us in the new year. At first I felt like a failure, but hopefully it will get dh and I being more consistent together.

midnightexpress - I feel responsible as I think if I could manage the kids better DH wouldn't get so cross. I feel he is cross with me for not being better, even though he understands how hard I find things.

juule

"I am unhappy because it upsets me when you talk like that" here the adult is taking full responsibility for their emotions, there is no blame directly on the child

compared with:

" You made me unhappy and upset by talking like that" directly blames the child and puts the burden of responsibility on the child for the parent's unhappiness.

Emotions are our own responsibility and can never be blamed on other people, children or adults. It is a very subtle difference but still a difference between a child feeling responsible for their parents emotions and a child being free of that.

OMDB I think the distinction might be a bit too subtle for a child. I'm not overly convinced myself.
Personally, I would probably only say something like that with more explanation.
The list of sad/happy etc would be a summary of that. I would also put up a list of things that I do that made the child sad/happy.

That is if I was doing lists.

Only problem with lists is that anything not on it can be interpreted as fair game. Or at least that would be a possibility with my lot.

DandK. Have you told your DH how him getting cross with the children upsets you? Perhaps you need to do that. You sound very anxious for everyone to be happy and seem to see it as your responsibility to make it so. It isn't just up to you. If you are being made anxious due to your dh response to the children then perhaps it would help to let him know and let him know that you would apprecieat support and not additional stress from him.

I told him yesterday that it sometimes scares me when he shous at them. I know he would never hit them or me but it is so out of character for him to shout and I know it is my fault he does. If I had brought the kids up better, and stopped worrying so much, they would be better behaved and he wouldn't have to shout. I sometimes go and get him to deal with them when I am stuck what to do and I know that tells the kids I have no authority. Maybe in those situations it would be better for me to walk away/ignore them?

I have asked Dh to step in and talk to me/get me out of the room/etc when I am losing it or look like I will. I hate shouting, the kids have started shouting at each other and it doesn't work half the time anyway.

After Christmas we are starting pocket money and I am going to award money for doing things the first time of asking, being kind, etc etc etc as they are getting interested in money now.

DandK, it sounds like you might really benefit from this programme. I just did it at my local SureStart and it was so useful for getting perspective, hearing about how other people manage things and getting clear and focussed about techniques to use. A lot of the things people have mentioned here, like family rules and appropriate consequences, were covered. There was a real mix of people on the course, from people who were really struggling, to people who just felt like they were, to people who were doing ok/well but faniced learning something new. Part of it is about looking at why you parent the way you do and how things from your past affect how you react now - I found so much of it useful and recommend it to loads of people!

I like the advice in 1-2-3 Magic. Basic message is not to get involved in too much of a discussion with children. Tell them what you expect, give them 2 chances to get it right and implement some sanction on the 3rd strike if they haven't done as asked. Avoids the whole exhausting explaining and testing process which kids are so good at drawing you into.

DandK what did your dh say when you told him he scares you? Has he agreed to try to be calmer about things? Did he reassure you that his shouting wasn't aimed at you? You do sound overly anxious that the children must behave and not upset their dad. Sometimes children do misbehave and it's difficult not to take it personally. Don't worry if you have to hand over to your dh now and then. It's only the same as him letting you deal with them and I'm sure he doesn't see that as a slight on his authority. Watch each other and note what works and what doesn't and try to adapt accordingly. Because one of the other difficulties with parenting is being adaptive to children as they go through different stages of development.
It's not a simple task but have patience, try to be calm and believe you can do it. Don't be undermined by anxiety over whether your dp will be annoyed if you don't have perfect children. Unless he says something (which you could then discuss your fears/problems/issues) then assume the best.

As someone earlier said you must be doing something right if other people think you have well-behaved children.

D&K, DP's temper is not your responsibility. It is not your fault because you are not solely responsible for raising your children.

Honestly? I don't think the issue is the way tyou handle your children - they sound quite normal - but the way you perceive yourself and your own capabilities.

Obviously I'm only making an assumption because of things I've picked up on here, and I apologise if I'm way off the mark.

You are looking at managing and coping tools, which tells me you are a good parent. But you might be beating yourself up over things which perhaps are out of your control?

Choose your battles wisely, maintain your composure, and don't doubt yourself. They are lovely children, you said so yourself.

I confess now. It is me .

I was too embarrassed before to post yet again about how I am struggling as you have all helped me so much before. However, that last post made me realise you really understand me so it only seemed right I say who I really am. I also wanted to use another name so the advice would be just on the OP and not on all my other issues.

I hope you are not mad at me.

I read some of How to talk.....last night and have 2 more books coming to help me. I tried the one word thing earlier and that helped and I also left them to sort things out themselves this morning on the way to PIL when they were arguing/fighting. Normally I would have shouted. Much better the former way.

"I know it is my fault he does. If I had brought the kids up better, and stopped worrying so much, they would be better behaved and he wouldn't have to shout."

OK this really disturbs me. OP, you do know that you are responsible for your own actions don't you, and your DP is responsible for his? YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SHOUTING, HE IS. (She says, shouting. ) He is responsible for his own actions, you are not responsible for his actions, only your own.

I'm also a bit perturbed about you saying if I had bought the kids up better... is he not responsible for the upbringing of his own children then? Is the responsbility solely yours? Are you a single parent? Only I thought the advantage of not being a single parent, was that another adult human being was equally responsible for your children. So why are you shouldering all the responsibility, not just for your parenting, but for that of your DP? Sounds like you're taking on too much to me.

I mean because I have them most as I am a stay at home mum and he works.

Still think it's a bit much to accept all responsibility for bringing up your kids.

I work outside the home as well, but that doesn't absolve me of responsibility for bringing up my kids. Or of taking responsibility for my shouting - it's my fault I shout, no-one else's.

This has hapened to me ( 3 dc's same sort of age) I got into a rut of blowing up at the slightest thing. So we all sat down and decided a job list. When they did the jobs they got a tick on the chart (and at the end of the week, points meant prizes). For myself, DH gave me 10 stars. If I shouted I lost a star. If I had 5 left at the end of the school holidays I could have a horse riding lesson. It all worked, I had 9 stars left and the jobs got done. I'll do it again if things get out of control again. It was hard to initiate, but easy once I got going and regained my confidence.