I went to a parenting lecture at dd's school this week, and the speaker said these things are generally (and statistically) present in 'happy' families with 'well adjusted' children....

[Earlybird]

1. Eat together as a family most evenings, and use it as time to share information, experiences, points of view, etc. No telly, radio or phone use at family meal times.

1. Children are expected to keep their rooms tidy as it teaches them to care for their own space in the home

1. Children have regular chores which is part of what they contribute as a member of the family.

1. No telly or computers in dc's rooms, and limits set on telly and computer time.

1. Family has some sort of spiritual dimension in their beliefs, routines, and home life (could be something as simple as talking about/recognising the things you have to be grateful for on a regular basis).

1. Family contributes in some way to their community (school, church, neighbourhood, etc).

All of the above are supposed to help prevent the dc feeling spoiled, entitled, angry, and isolated . Also helps show/teach them respect, gratitude, manners and support.

Your thoughts? Agree or disagree? Anything you'd add or take away from the list above?

Well said, thearmadillo.

I agree with Armadillo - we had none of these things when i was growing up - maybe the tidy bedroom - and I feel pretty well adjusted.

To me the important things are

Unconditional love
Good manners
Thinking about/respecting other people and their feelings
Seeing education as being important, supporting and encouraging that
Understanding the value of material things. ie food shouldn't get wasted, saving for toys that you want etc
Learning to entertain yourself
Fresh air and exercise
Encouraging independance

Opinions like the one in the OP are very culturally determined.

I think it is important to eat regularly together as a family, but I think it is just as important to eat in twosomes (both adults, one adult-one child) and threesomes (two adults-one child) regularly so that everyone in the family is getting proper attention to their individual needs.

I guess that's why we ain't the Waltons

But I'll bear it in mind

lol @; custy's happy responses until point 6

I would add parents pursuing their own interests e.g sports, reading
Pretty much agree with the rest - wouldn't say I do a lot of volunteering, but I would like to with the kids, and even attending local events or giving food to the school harvest festival (for example) gives a sense of values and pride in community. I don't think different beliefs hurt either (one parent christian for example) its more being prepared to talk about what you believe is important.

"SorciereAnna"
"Opinions like the one in the OP are very culturally determined."

I think this is a very good point.

1. We do where ever possible, but DH often works late.

2. Dd1 is currently cleaning her room

3. They don't especially have set chores, but they are expected to pick things up after themselves and dd1 sets the table every evening.

4. They have a tv in their bedroom, but it has no ariel. It is for dvd's and VTech games and they respect the fact that they are only allowed it on during the weekend and holidays.

5. I completely disagree with organised religion. My mum practises Wicca and I occassionally do some spells, I don't know if that would count?

I would add that we have pretty much an open house policy, friends and cousins are always allowed. I think that teaches family values and the improtance of having good relationships and friends.

6. I work pt, babysit for my friend and sister and have two children. Any spare time is mine.

I like all the points, but am a bit iffy re No 6 - an unrealistic expectation for most people, and that's unlikely to make your DC less well-rounded.

Re the spiritual dimension in No 5 - wouldn't just Giving A Shit About Stuff do? We are atheists - but yes, we care about the rise in support for the BNP, and global warming, and the electoral fraud in Afghanistan, etc etc and we discuss it with the DCs. So I think it's more about having a view re what's right and what's wrong - a moral compass.

I contribute to my neighbourhood by feeding the neighbours' pets, putting their mail inside while on hol, taking in parcels for them etc. We should not forget the small, small things that make a difference.

I fancy eating in a threesome. Not with family members though.

1. Eat together as a family most evenings, and use it as time to share information, experiences, points of view, etc. No telly, radio or phone use at family meal times.

Nope, eat together very rarely.

1. Children are expected to keep their rooms tidy as it teaches them to care for their own space in the home

Expected to yes, in practice...

1. Children have regular chores which is part of what they contribute as a member of the family.

Nope, no regular chores (they will usually help out when asked on ad hoc basis though)

1. No telly or computers in dc's rooms, and limits set on telly and computer time.

Failed again - I don't set limits. (They don't watch TV excessively, but ds's computer use borders on obsessive)

1. Family has some sort of spiritual dimension in their beliefs, routines, and home life (could be something as simple as talking about/recognising the things you have to be grateful for on a regular basis).

Oops, don't think we do this either.

1. Family contributes in some way to their community (school, church, neighbourhood, etc).

Finally - yes! We all do various voluntary stuff.

I'm really not at all sure that the dcs feel any more spoiled, entitled, angry, and isolated than any others or have any less respect, gratitude, manners and support etc. They seem pretty well balanced well grounded teenagers to me & people often comment favourably on them & say we have a good relationship.

So, I rather think though there may be a correlation between those things & 'happiness' it's not a simple cause and effect relationship - more likely that the two often occur together for more complex reasons.

Is it OK to do all or most of the above some of the time. Or are the halos supposed to be permanent?

And does polishing each other's halos count as a chore?

Halos need straightening regularly

I like Hassled 'Giving a shit about things'. And things not only on my own doorstep.

Spiritual is what exactly? And please don't respond by telling me that I don't need to adhere to a believe system to be spiritual, because that still doesn't tell me what it actually MEANS. Or how it manifests. Or impacts on my life or indeed that of my children.

Belief even

I think that this is rubbish (the general and statistically present bit) because 5 is totally unmeasurable and woolly. A statement that broad is meaningless. For anyone to talk about statistics there must have been some sort of determination of families that followed these "rules" and those that didn't, and then some sort of measure of "happiness" where it was shown that the first group were happier than the second.

I think that this is a collection of values that the speaker likes and thinks is associated with "good" children, and that this has been conflated with "happiness". The idea that good=happy is totally iffy in my book as well.

I like Warto's list, but really because it fits with my values as to what I think a good childhood should be about.

As it happens I was brought up with parents who very much endorsed those values (give or take) but although I had manners, and generally knew how to appear respectful, was grateful for a pretty good deal in life, I was also angry and isolated, and I am sure I at times felt very entitled and was also spoilt (I was a teenager after all!). Mainly because the unconditional love was often missing.

I do think this list includes some important things.

Meal times can be a time for the family to be together. But this can be done at other times too (and it does assume a certain style of family life).

Having a part to play in looking after your home/private space is important too (but I don't think having a cleaning lady for example is bad for your personal morals or happiness - in fact it made me very happy indeed).

Not being glued to a screen all day is a good thing (although I prefer some fresh air/exercise as the emphasis) although I don't see books in that sentence, and I think having your nose stuck in a book is just as antisocial (I come from a family of bookworms)

I think the "spiritual dimension" line is bull through and through

The last one is a bit weebly too - "contributes in some way" again too wide - is my family happier because I now go to a PTA meeting every other month or so? Was I happier because my mother did voluntary work ? Was my family happier when I worked for the NHS I wonder?

I think that these are very middle class values/assumptions, fitting nicely with a dad at work, mum at home type lifestyle.

I would say that the speaker misunderstands statistics and the relationship between cause and effect!

Agree largely with nooka - these ideals are very middle class, 2 parents, SAHM etc...

I work shifts so am frequently away at mealtimes so can't often do number one. Don't do voluntary work either as no way to fit it all in with working FT and looking after 2 DCs. DS1 has a playstation in his room so we fail on that...

1. We do at the weekends, in the week ds and I will have breakfast together.

We do all of the rest.

I find it a little patronising. Not all families are logistically able to do all of those things and their children are still happy and well adjusted. This is why I never go on these free parenting courses. I can imagine in my area it would be full of middle class types congratulating themselves for being so perfect and less privleged families finding that they have yet more things to beat themselves up about.

We were brought up with all of that.

My sister is a [happy, well adjusted] graduate married to another woman, that's all fine but she hates her entire family on a rotational system.

I am a depressed, non functioning, post-anorexic (well yes I suppose I survived it) AS dropout with two children by different fathers.

So it seems to me those little bullet points do not tell the whole story here.

Earlybird - yes I think that list makes a lot of sense. The 'routine' of a wel ordered family life is very important in my view. I know a lot of otherwise well off families where that is not the case. Children feel unloved and uncertain without a proper routine.

I think I agree on the whole with the list although I sometimes have problems enforcing 2 and 3.

I would also add encouraging and supporting hobbies/interests which children have. This could also merge with the spiritual dimension/helping with the community. Eg belonging to the local cricket team and helping serve the teas, looking after the green, meeting up with other players etc.