I went to a parenting lecture at dd's school this week, and the speaker said these things are generally (and statistically) present in 'happy' families with 'well adjusted' children....

[Earlybird]

1. Eat together as a family most evenings, and use it as time to share information, experiences, points of view, etc. No telly, radio or phone use at family meal times.

1. Children are expected to keep their rooms tidy as it teaches them to care for their own space in the home

1. Children have regular chores which is part of what they contribute as a member of the family.

1. No telly or computers in dc's rooms, and limits set on telly and computer time.

1. Family has some sort of spiritual dimension in their beliefs, routines, and home life (could be something as simple as talking about/recognising the things you have to be grateful for on a regular basis).

1. Family contributes in some way to their community (school, church, neighbourhood, etc).

All of the above are supposed to help prevent the dc feeling spoiled, entitled, angry, and isolated . Also helps show/teach them respect, gratitude, manners and support.

Your thoughts? Agree or disagree? Anything you'd add or take away from the list above?

But aren't these rules also too child centric - parents have this vague 'be part of the community' 'install spiritual side to the family' - but there never seems to be much of an undertaking by the parents to be other than disciplinarians and rule makers in the whole equation ...

A really good list.

Sometimes difficult to balance "open listening style of parenting" with "strong boundary style of parently" but am trying ... think both are necessary ...

The point about the religious/spiritual dimension was perhaps made in relation to research about the link between faith and psychological contentment ....

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7302609.stm

My parents followed all of those.

I still had a horrible childhood.

However those around us thought and still do, that it was perfect cos hell we did the stuff above

well on our estate it was cool enough to be a wild roaring success. Youth services are heavily regulated and follow govt agenda of the day - so invariably we got the kids who were 'banned' by the youth services youth club - invariable the kids who really needed the youth club as they were the ones that were likely to cause the trouble.

IME - kids like someone out of the rain, a pool table and no hidden agenda (such as the RESPECT agenda) they don't want to be preached to or for their time to be used as an opportunity to be srptitiously educated. they aren't daft.

i firm'y believe in diversionary activities an funding for such - but thi sis an ongoing plaster to a wound which will continue to bleed for successive generations if there isn't funding for universal parenting classes.

as the rules below are trying to guilt you explain, there are certain standards, certain things that generally good parenting should show. ( whether those rules below do or not is the discussion) but i think we all do accept that there are norms, standard and expectations of us as good parents.

it is clear though that some people do not understand this. and children get their cues from their parents in their formative years - as roger was saying earlier

I agree with Gomez.
I think Iheartdusty makes better points than the 6 listed.

As regards the 6 listed:

1. Eat together as a family most evenings, and use it as time to share information, experiences, points of view, etc. No telly, radio or phone use at family meal times.

Wouldn't work in our house. Difficult to get them all together at the same time (2 adults, 9 children, different times for clubs, work, schools, colleges). Children have always known that we are available to talk/share information whenever so that's not such a problem anyway.

1. Children are expected to keep their rooms tidy as it teaches them to care for their own space in the home

Huge gulf between something being 'expected' and it 'happening'. Not something worth getting too het up about most of the time.

1. Children have regular chores which is part of what they contribute as a member of the family.

Nope. They do whatever needs doing when it needs doing and if they are available.

1. No telly or computers in dc's rooms, and limits set on telly and computer time.

Depends. Very flexible with this. If we don't all want to watch the same dvd they can watch it somewhere else. Younger children can use pc downstairs, older ones wherever.

1. Family has some sort of spiritual dimension in their beliefs, routines, and home life (could be something as simple as talking about/recognising the things you have to be grateful for on a regular basis).

Not sure what is meant by this.

1. Family contributes in some way to their community (school, church, neighbourhood, etc).

If we had any time, I'm sure we would. But usually we have very little time due to family commitments.

And I also was and felt incrediably isolated.

i agree that all the points should be things to aspire to - and i also agree that we can't always achieve everything we aspire to

i used to help out with guides and also teach martial arts (voluntarily for a non-profit group) but don't manage it right now, but i aspire to manage it again in future.

we don't always eat together, but we aspire to.

It should be common sense, really, but it isn't nowadays.

Fivesetsofschoolfees- i used to absolutely long for specific family values and routines.

My parents thought christmas was an old-fashioned load of rubbish and a capitalist junk-fest - so used to encourage me and my sister to get musical engagements on christmas day so we wouldn't have to sit through the boredom of christmas lunch with boring old relatives.

It was regarded as a better thing to be so good at music that you were employable by a large hotel on Christmas day, and capable of earning large amounts of money; than to actually enjoy seeing your relatives - because htey didn't have the same standard of education and therefore must be stupid, boring and thus unworthy of attention.

So I would sit there in some bloody hotel lobby playing in a string quartet with tears streaming down my face watching all the happy couples and families walk in to have lunch together...

I think encouraging your children to follow the school's rules and supporting the school (or working with the school) is enough to satisfy rule 6 tbh

the amount of families I see who don't do that (confronting teachers aggressively in front of their children, not supporting the school's rules etc.) - I think it's an odd message to give to your children

Armadillo

that's a very good point you make, I had a pretty similar experience

List should also include:
fundmental unconditional love
genuine pleasure in one another's company
respect for one another as individuals
regular fun

[sounds like the Waltons )

I don't think anyone expects that adhering strictly to all 6 rules will be a guarantee of a happy, perfect, fulfilled childhood, churning out perfect, shiny well-rounded adults.
Just as many children who grow up in horrific family situations - or no family - also demonstrate on the surface manners, respect,etc.
but given that people today generally seem to be angry, spoiled, lacking in respect and isolated, I repeat, will it hurt to try stuff which might?

Agree wholeheatedly that unconditional loive,
fun
and enjoyment in each other's company are essential.
Perhaps it is like a CV The 6 points are 'desirabe' but we all have our own 'essentials''?

I'm constitutionally untidy. Don't think it makes my children feel spoilt at all

I think pretty much all the points are a useful way of helping teach children desirable values, but not necessarily the only way - we hardly ever had a family meal in the evenings when the DC were growing up because DH got home too late - our meaningful family discussions generally took place in the car on family trips to various shopping centres.
And I have never thought that computers were the work of the devil or that an untidy room had any major significance - 'it teaches them to care for their space' - if it's their space, it's up to them how they have it, as long as it's not a health & safety hazard.

{{{MMV}}}

All parents get some things wrong - mine did and I do. We have to learn from these mistakes.

It sounds like your parents where trying to do their best, but obviously were mistaken.

wonder why no PCs in rooms

I suspect it is because it is not as easy to monitor what your dc are watching/reading etc. However as watching anything on a screen or playing pc games late at night are going to make it hard for a child to wind down and sleep well, might just as easily be that. an accumulative lack of sleep is going to make anyone grumpy, rude and ill-mannered

A pc in a child's room doesn't have to mean that they are using it late at night.

It's a great list.
But it doesn't really help all the thousands of people who can't match up to it.
I don't think that the lack of all of the points will result in spoiled, angry, isolated children though. it's not as simplistic as that.

agree with the 6 points,
but also with the respect element that seems to have been added through the thread.

my parents come from the polite to someones face brigade and bitch endlessly when they aren't there.

The fact that these things may be statistically more common in happy families does not mean either that they themselves make families happy or that they are a sine qua non for a happy family.

Statistically, he's probably right. But if I had to make my own list, I'd include other things that I feel are more important to us. Counting's list makes a good starting point: these I think really are essentials rather than just statistics.

89% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I agree with it all, but its hardly rocket science is it? The spiritual thing gets my goat though - think MORAL code is more appropriate. You don't need to worship false gods to have morals!

I don't know what on earth "spiritual" means.

I think points like these are misleading.

I think that all in all, though nice (though I don't agree with all of them(, they are not essential and not as important as people would like to believe.

What they do is to give the impression, especially to outsiders, that you have a happy functional family. They are just surface stuff

I think you can have none of these things and have a happy well balanced family with well adjusted children. Yet they are used to criticise/judge others - 'oh they never eat together', 'oh they let them have a computer in their room'. That kind of thing means nothing other than a different idea of how children should be raised. And I don't believe there is one set way to raise children.

The idea of love and respect for both family members and others can be achieved in many ways.

I personally feel, and yes it is because of my experiences that they red herrings.